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I am looking at customizing some lines and the one question I have is. If you are building a line and want to use the loop to loop style connections. What is the best way to attach a loop to the line that you have. Splicing, tying, glue? What material tends to make the best loops to attach to the line? Thanks in advance.
 

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There have been quite a few posts on loops and everyone has their own method. One of the easiest is to cut the line and strip off around 1.5 inches of the coating to expose the braided core. Slip on a piece of 25# braided mono form a loop and whip finish - I will whip finish back onto the plastic line a short ways - you can make a very small neat loop. Coat the whip finish with aquaseal or some other flexible cement.

I just got a Delta Spey that I cut at 15' and 30 feet - can use my 15' tips or add a density compensator plus a tip
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Thanks Fred,

I am surprised that's still up there after so many years! A more recent version is on the forum, www.flyfishingforum.com/expertise under the hybrid line systems link.

(Rick - this is the same method you describe, I came up with it in the late 80's and published it with Martin 11yrs ago)

Bill Kessler (Wrke) recently sent me a loop he makes that was very impressive. Perhaps he'll chime in. He puts some mono inside the line core then pulls it inside itself like a blind splice, then treats it with glue. Similar in size to the one I came up with a long time ago but the reinforcement is inside the core unlike mine which is outside. My only concern is that loosening a tightened connection has always been difficult with flyline core for me (thus the braided nylon sheath) but his idea to thread mono inside may address that with rigidity. Very compact, strong and stiff to prevent hinging. I am going to be adopting the Kessler-loop this season; it's the first one I've been impressed enough to change to from my own!

Also, many of the factory loops that were so bad when I wrote that article have really improved. The polyfuse airflo loops for instance are very nice although they don't do you any good if you are cutting your own.

I personally am not a big fan of the long braided loops you buy because it just seems to me to be a lot of length for no purpose, I nail knot the end and glue over so is that 4" sleeve really doing anything? I guess it grips on tension but the nail knot and glue itself is all that is needed.

For spey casting the loops are not all that critical except when fish are fighting hard and the loops are sticking in the guides. I am very keen on a good loop this year because I want to overcome my aversion to loop connections to take advantage of shooting heads this season in coastal flyfishing applications with the two-handed overhead Atlantis rod. With loop connections in a strip-retrieve fishery, every cast gets the clunk clunk without very compact and streamlined loops because the head is always brought inside the guides. I searched for factory lines to fit the bill but the versatility of shooting heads has got me off my high horse and I will be exploiting shooting heads completely this year. Thus the loop is critical and I am hoping Bill's loop will do it.

Plenty of room for new discoveries in this thing called flyfishing!
 

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Speyngineer
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Looping methods

Here is one method for building loops to lines with dacron core. Also joining lines together with this style is shown. The method has gained more and more supporters in the finnish salmon line cutters ranks. The instructions are in finnish :eyecrazy:, and the article is written by a finnish Spey Clave member sms.

http://www.perhokalastajat.net/?action=artikkelit&url=pleissaus

PS. The site is a noncommercial finnish flyfishing website.
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Lohi -

Thanks for the link! One question - does the method put the mono inside the line core? If so it's very similar to what Bill sent me.

I wish I could read Finnish!
 

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Speyngineer
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No monos

Hi Juro,

No, the dacron core is put inside itself, but no additional monos are used (or put inside the core). The mono shown in the first pictures is just to strip the coating off. Some people do strengthen the resulting loop with aquasure or some other similar flexible coating (at least I do).

Lohi
 

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We have been doing it the Finnish way for a number of years. Like to use Aquaseal when I splice lines, adds some insurance and will use some UV curing coating when I do the loops in the dacron core.
Use beeding needles to open the core up and .010 music wire to pull the core with. Much stronger than dental floss.
Leroy AKA Speyrd........................
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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I've had problems loosening loops made of just flyline core, and heard the same from others when I was looking into homemades many moons ago. After a snag or a hot fish, do you guys find it difficult to pick the line core loops apart?

This is where either a braided sheath or a monocore (haven't tried it yet) adds a lot of benefit.
 

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We have had problems getting the fly line core loops a part. Putting some type of coating on the loop helped but I think that the "inserted mono" along with some coating would be the ticket.
Will build a couple loops and give it a test.
Leroy......................
 

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Dana's Flex-zap Method

Using the line core to make a loop, or to join lines is a modification of Dana's flex-zap method http://www.speypages.com/speypages.htm

I have avoided using the line core by itself in the past, because it is typically weaker than braid, and getting the looped sections apart. I am willing to try something better, but do not want to lose a fish because of a poor loop. I think we need to pay some attention to how the saltwater boys do it when there is even more stress on the tackle. They seem to favor the braided loop?

Convince me this method is better.
 

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loco alto!
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I enjoy playing with loop methods. After trying a bunch (including those described here) I have settled on the double-hitched braided loop. Its not as sleek as some, though certainly sleeker than others. Most important to me is that you can hang a truck from a well constructed braided loop every time. The bluewater people use these on Marlin and that's good enough for me. See Dan Blanton's saltwater board, under the technical articles.

My intent is not to "slam" anyone but to relate my opinions. I find braided loops to be sleeker than Juro's loop. Juro's loop uses layering to provide strength: the intact fly line, the flyline core, and two thickness of braided loop material are all lashed into one location, making a thick bump that creates too much "perpendicular" bulk for my tastes. I don't like how it moves through the guides. With a standard braided loop you minimal perpendicular bulk: one layer of braided loop surrounding a 4" length of fly line.

If you really want you can reduce the 4" sleeve to 1/2", but as the holding area of any loop gets concentrated into a shorter section, you place greater stress on that section. Spread the stress, and stress less about it.

Trey Comb's loop (i.e. the Dana loop) creates a weak spot where the core exits the flyline, and I've had lines fail at that point when stress tested. Whenever I make this loop now (for permanent splices), I use a 3" section of braided loop sleeve (50 lb Gudebrod) over the junction, secured with epoxied at the ends.

I will have to decipher the Finnish system - thanks for the link.
 

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loco_alto -

A question - I would agree that this is a much thinner system but I would think that if the braided section you have extending beyond the end of the fly line (this is where you have pulled the braid in on itself to form the loop plus the loop itself) is too long that as a connection between two fly line sections especially if in the middle heavy section of line that you could get substantial hinging. I have talked to others who use this system and they say they do not notice this hinging. TRUE??
 

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I don't

notice any hinging, but then I can't tell how many guides a rod has by casting it blindfolded as some suposedly can.

Fred hangs a polleader off three feet of maxima but attached to the fly line. If something was going to hinge badly, that should be it. Apparently it works. Where I have noticed it is with some of the old sink tips that would put a 10 wt tip on a 7 or 8 wt line. I do not see that done by manufacturers anymore.
 

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loco alto!
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I have not noticed hinging when the braided loop material is doubled up inside itself, as occurs when making the loop. The 35 and 50 lb braided material turned into itself is remarkably similar in stiffness to flyline. I use one small drop of CA glue to set the line at the double-hitch entry. This isn't actually needed, as the double-hitch holds perfectly without any glue. I do it for peace of mind.

Some people prefer to coat the entire 4" braided loop with aquaseal. I don't like this: because its (1) too stiff, and (2) too heavy. As such, it noticeably affects line dynamics. Besides, if you are going to coat the entire loop, then just make it 1/2" long instead of 4". With the entire loop coated you lose the benefit of the finger puzzle action anyway.

On the other hand, the single layer of braided material that actually forms the 1/2" terminal loop is softer than flyline, and has the potential to hinge - though I haven't noticed it. When I'm coating the nail knot that holds together the frayed part of the loop, I will often apply a *very* light coat of aquaseal or (my preferred) Loon soft head to the terminal loop. The point is to very slightly increase the stiffness yet keep it flexible. I can't stress enough that only a little bit is needed - don't saturate it. The Loon softhead is perfect for this, as it comes with an applicator brush, which makes it easy to provde just a light swipe.
 

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Speyngineer
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Another view to the looping

Interesting methods, all of which have their pros and cons I guess. I dont know if the method, I posted a link to earlier, can be called "the finnish method", at least I have no facts about the history of it, and certainly no claims about it :D. I thought that it is just another method, which I have not seen on these pages before.

Here is another link (again in gibberish) with quite good pictures to the same method.

http://www.perhoboxi.com/perhosivut/sorro/siimalenkki.htm

The site is again noncommercial finnish flyfishing site (although it contains some commercial banners).

What troubles me with the braided loops is that although they are useful in the thin ends of the flyline, in my view they are not so handy if a loop is being made into a thick part of the line. Then one has to strip the coating off, and the length of the line involved in the loop becomes quite long. All IMHO :D
 

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What size?

Lohi - what size flyline are you working with? I have used the 50# braided to make loops in 12 wt belly and it works fine. I have not needed to use it on thicker belly. I think it would work on something a size or two larger.
 

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Speyngineer
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What size?

Normal salmon line sizes, #10 -#12. Obviously my braided mono is smaller than yours :eek: . There is also this other thing... I dont trust the braided mono locking effect. Dont ask me why, it just feels like being on too thin ice. When your loop is as strong as the core of the line, then you know it is as strong as it can/need to be.

I am not saying that the braided loops wouldn't do the job, just that i dont feel comfortable with them.
 

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Just a quick response. Most time is spent with grandaughter on my knee, don't get much time for that (we're in Oregon for the holidays) so little time spent on the internet. Interesting thread. Yes, my method mentioned by Juro appears very similar to the finnish technique (and method mentioned on Dana's site). I've only used it with lines with normal braided dacron cores and it works fine. I insert .021 maxima into the loop which makes for a very small, stable, non-hinging loop. Blind splice accomplished with a pin vise, secured with either flex-zap or the new pasco high-end CA cement.
Bill
 
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