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Meiser, T&T, and OPST two handers; Scott, Orvis, & Winston SH. Danielsson and Hardy Reels
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Discussion Starter #1
Recently I've sold/bought a number of items where I was requested to send money or items with basic untruths or other issues about them. This bothers me. This forum exists to buy and sell, there are costs/benefits from using it. These practices are neither beneficial to both parties or, frankly, legal.

1. Declaring an item a gift and marking its value well below what it actually is. This practice harms the seller by the inability to purchase insurance, try valuing something at $20 and insuring it for $800. It harms the buyer in the event the item is lost or damaged in transit. I don't know what import duties are in other countries, but my guess they are far less than the loss of the entire purchase price if the item doesn't arrive or arrives in damaged condition.

2. Sending money marked family and friends on PayPal. This robs PayPal of the revenue it needs to provide purchase protection and other administrative benefits of the service. If the seller is unwilling to eat the cost of PayPal, they should price the item higher or state that paypal fees need to be added to the purchase price. In most cases, I will add 1 or 2% to the purchase price to contribute something toward the fee for the seller. The refusal to accept PayPal is a disservice to buyers and should be worked out so neither is harmed and both benefit.

3. Mailing issues are a concern for both buyer and seller. On another post many members have chimed in to vilify USPS or other services, i.e. FEDEX or UPS. First, I have never had a problem with USPS shipping domestic or international. Second, it is far cheaper and offers reliable tracking. Finally, it is easy to stop delivery if you are planning to be away during a time of an expected delivery.

4. On most smaller items this isn't a big issue, but when rods are involved, consider indicating you do not want items left on a doorstep, but rather returned to the post office or other facility to be picked up.
 

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I always do Paypal as family/friends. It's not a professional business service transaction, it's a transaction between friends. So why wouldn't you do that if Paypal offers it for just this reason? Totally different situation if you are buying from a shop or professional vendor IMO.
 

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Paypal 'Friends & Family' will not refund selling price of any goods if deal goes wrong.

Paypal policy is that seller is responsible for fees, a detail which seems to escape many sellers here.

Technically, any transaction of goods online which uses a service such as Pay Pal is liable for fees, duty etc.I think we all know Friends and family are bending the rules somewhat, it's also a gamble.

I recently sold a reel for $950.00 US and the buyer in the US stipulated that he does not pay through F&F as he wanted protection as we did not know each other. He also had protection of the maximum postal insurance was covered, it was less than selling price. In the event the item arrived in very short time, he was not required to pay duty and I stumped up for the PayPal fee.

Malcolm
 

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Meiser, T&T, and OPST two handers; Scott, Orvis, & Winston SH. Danielsson and Hardy Reels
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Discussion Starter #4
For the reasons mentioned, if everyone did F/F, PayPal would not offer purchase protection when we need it most, selling to someone who wants us to send F/F but isn't our friend because they are out to defraud us. The fee is a form of protection that I would rather pay than be without.
 

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I always do Paypal as family/friends. It's not a professional business service transaction, it's a transaction between friends. So why wouldn't you do that if Paypal offers it for just this reason? Totally different situation if you are buying from a shop or professional vendor IMO.
It's a professional transaction not when necessarily done with a business (I can easily have a business card but no business license) but when you actually don't know the person and the transaction is conducted quickly, transparently, and in accordance with the applicable rules and regulations. Just because we're fellow flingers of fly doesn't mean everyone is inherently honest or that things don't go wrong in shipping.

So my devil's advocate wants to know: I don't know you, would you F&F a payment to me? I actually do have a business card. If you would send me $$ via PP F&F, why?

[[Personally, I generally toss a few extra bucks in to cover the fees for above-average sellers, especially if the sale is in the multiple hundreds.]]
 

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I seem to remember a friend of mine had a bad transaction and found that he could not redeem his money back through Paypal, at the time (I don't know if it has improved since) but Paypal (then) could only refund you if they could get it back from the seller.

I brought a reel made by a fellow once who had a hit and miss reputation for quality, I took a chance and indeed it was a very poorly made reel. I called, emailed and was given excuses. On request, I sent the reel back to him and all went silent from his end.

Luckily I had kept the paper trail and had paid with a credit card. I contacted them and stright away they refunded all of my money including postage.

And Gary, I was so pleased I purchased that wonderful Ocean Prince from you, being in the same country, classy transaction.


Malcolm
 

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The kick in the butt is the 12% PST/GST and a $10 inspection fee that customs hits me up with on every purchase from across the line not sure if it happens when we send stuff south.

Add that to a 76 cent dollar and buying anything gets hard.


Grant
I agree with you 100%, paying taxes on a used item that someone already paid taxes on is more like a kicks in the bal**. Bought a used reel for $350US and paid additional $65CAN when it arrived for duties and taxes..
 

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I have had many items over the years come in from the UK and US which slip through without tax or duty being applied even though the full value was declared. These items came through Canada Post.

Malcolm
 

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Customs

I have had many items over the years come in from the UK and US which slip through without tax or duty being applied even though the full value was declared. These items came through Canada Post.

Malcolm
Yes they seem very inconsistent But lately they get me every time if it over $50.00

Grant
 

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PayPal does not insure things purchased by F&F, so that arguement by the OP is not valid. When paying for used, preowned items I typically voluntarily send via F&F to save the sender some money. I feel this is well within the spirit of F&F as it is not a commercial or taxable transaction when the item is used, not manufactured by the seller, and sold well below the retail price - there is a legal distinction.

Typically the money goes to the sellers “wallet” (regular or FF) and you have to transfer it to your bank account explicitly. So PayPal makes money off the transaction until that happens, just like a bank, and THAT is why PayPal doesn’t care in those cases.

When I sell I don't care how the buyer pays as the choice on their end is whether they want the added insurance. If neither party wants extra insurance then they should not pay for it. I don’t sweat the difference, and I think you are not allowed to stipulate in your posted adds. On a few occasions I have chosen to use the insured route for high ticket used items like a Burkie, and in one case where a guy said he would reduce the price if I did the FF method I said go ahead and send the rod regular, and I will pay more and split the difference with him.

On very low ticket items like $10, where I was basically just trying to get things to people who could use them as a good deed, and where I was on the cutting edge of loosing money after shipping, I have suggested privately to the buyer that they use FF, but said that it was up to them. The only guy that still payed regular was not coincidentally the guy who was trying to bargain me down on a used $4 item that sold for $25 commercially. I lost money on the whole transaction, but didn’t care.

Doorstep or not? This is an issue for the buyer to bring up. For me for example doorstep is FAR better than back to the PO. Don’t presume to make this decision for the buyer. Ask before you send if it is an expensive item, yes. But with modern online tracking it is easier to watch for the arrival of expensive items.

PayPal makes an enormous amount of money off of me. It is my preferred way to pay for things online, commercial and privately and I hardly use my CC anymore. My fishing buddies and I even typically pay each other back via PayPal for our shares on fishing trips now, rather than writing checks.

Personally I feel all Speypages members are my friends. :)
 

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Personally I think paypal is a sham that just wants to get your money. When I buy, or sell, an item I will only send a cashier's check or money order, and will only accept these forms of payment. They are quicker to clear through the bank and receive funds to send rods, reels etc. or receive them.
Just my 2 cents worth.
 

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Not sure I understand the negativity about PayPal. I listed something yesterday, got paid in about 10 minutes, transferred the money to my bank in 30 seconds, and the buyer got his stuff sent immediately. By check or MO it would have taken a week, and possibly my time in going to the bank. Sure there's a fee, but why should they provide the service for free? I have no problem if a buyer would rather send a MO, but there's value to me in making the transaction quick and easy. If it's an expensive rod or something and the fee is more than I'd want to absorb, then I might specify a MO, but most of the time I'd prefer PP. And PP costs the buyer nothing--there is a fee for a MO or cashiers check if a buyer goes that route and they have to take a trip to the bank or the PO to get it.

Banks are now getting into the game with the Zelle service, and you can do that without a fee. Most folks are just not aware of it yet, but hopefully the word will get around.
 

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The kick in the butt is the 12% PST/GST and a $10 inspection fee that customs hits me up with on every purchase from across the line not sure if it happens when we send stuff south.

Add that to a 76 cent dollar and buying anything gets hard.


Grant
I have only been charged duty, taxes and brokerage fees only when shipped by UPS and the auction site's Global Shipping Program, never by USPS or Royal Mail. There is a Free Trade Agreement between our countries. I have emailed the two companies charging these fees countless times asking for an explanation but has of yet to get a reply from either one
 

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If you look at friends and family option the pay structure for paypal changes.
They cover there asses a little. if you use friends and family you dont get buyer protection. so its a trade off.

we should be sticking up for eachother and not so woried about the big corps bottom line
I think they do enough of that already.


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MIke
 

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I am curious whether It is possible to send funds by email (Interac) in the US. Here in Canada we use it all the time to transfer funds. It is fast, secure and most bank plans allow unlimited free transfers. I seldom use PayPal except on cross border transactions or EBay purchases. Btw - you can't use FF to send funds from Canada to the US.
 

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I am curious whether It is possible to send funds by email (Interac) in the US. Here in Canada we use it all the time to transfer funds. It is fast, secure and most bank plans allow unlimited free transfers. I seldom use PayPal except on cross border transactions or EBay purchases. Btw - you can't use FF to send funds from Canada to the US.
The Zelle system I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread appears similar to the Interac system you mention. It's just getting started here in the US, and you can send funds instantly via email or a mobile number. The problem is that few seem to know about it yet, and thus doesn't get used much. I think it's the answer for quick funds transfer--certainly easier than obtaining and sending money orders or checks. However I don't think it works cross-border.
 
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