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Damn fish ladder
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199 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi all---


I fish the New York City bight with a variety of rods...the name of the game is distance. . Thus, I usually just use a 9wt Scott STS and do it all one handed and can shoot/cast one of my homemade 8wt lines w/ extra running line. But, it hurts my back and wrist after a few hours.

That's my backstory...now...

**How can/does the Atlantis 1111 generate the linespeed necessary to cut through the wind/make long casts?

My other spey rods simply cannot cut through the wind when overhead casting and I usually can't speycast where I fish.

It seems that the double haul just generates SO much rearward and forward line speed. **One cannot double-haul with a double-hander doing an overhead cast, can they? I sort of can when I spey cast, but not overhead.

Testimonials? **Must one use a shooting head system with the Atlantis? What line is being recommended?


Many thanks in advance...

Also, if anyone is in the NYC area and wants to go catch some stripers, please PM me.

Thanks-

Joe
 

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Ask Juro

Joe - Juro will probably add a lot as soon as he sees this, meanwhile - you do not double haul with a two handed rod. You do not need to. The longer lever gives greater line speed, and the second hand can contribute at the ron, not pulling on the line, to increase line speed. Juro haas been using a shooting head system and getting 100 + ft distances. The first time through I got an extra digit in.

Also, do a search on "atlantis" to get some information in past threads.
 

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Damn fish ladder
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199 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
1000'

I can easily cast 1000' with my Hexagraph. It just requires a lot of beer.

Look forward to other thoughts to my above post. Thanks to all-

JOE
 

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254 Posts
Joe

I've cast the Atlantis that Dennis is holding with that blue fin. We walked down to the water on a day with 20 knot sustained winds and gustings to 40. It sucked and I thought Dennis was crazy. Well just look at that picture, he ain't crazy. I had some 400 and 500 grain heads on some running line and we hammered it, straight into the wind. I couldn't believe it. With little or no effort. The action on CND's is something one must feel. They will set the standard for all other rods that you try. I already own the Salar and Skagit. The Atlantis is my next target for the salt water. Before you buy anything, get a hold of Juro and try it. Search on the Atlantic and Stripper board of fly talk and read what ya can. You won't be sorry.

Matt
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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:chuckle:

Actually, Topher's the tournament caster - you won't see me challenging him to a duel even with an 11ft sword. Topher, drop the extra digit in the "1000" and we're about right (no, not the leftmost digit :p )

Joe -

The Atlantis is different from a spey rod and different from a single handed rod at the same time. That was a big part of the challenge in making this rod.

For the most part a spey rod flexes best when it is supple enough to carry the load around during fairly slow set-up motions and yet powerful enough to unload all that flexed energy into a tight loop on the final blow. It's intentionally supple, and the longer the better for spey casting. River fishing via spey is perhaps the most pleasurable thing... but the surf isn't river fishing by a long shot. Where spey fishing for steelhead and salmon can be meditative, flyfishing in surf can be like playing rugby.

Specifically, when overhand casting the typical long spey rods, expect a little delay - it takes patience to overhand cast a softer rod while the line catches up (unlike the Atlantis). When stripping, expect some bounce - all that rod and suppleness jumps around when trying to strip action into a fly (the 1111 is very tight to the contrary). Expect some trouble in the red zone - too much length makes it harder to reach your fish. These are the reasons we bothered to make a beach rod... a spey rod just ain't right. Atlantis 1111 loads into the blank but much, much faster than a spey rod; tight and light for fishing; short enough to deal with at only 11ft and much of the difference is the handle length.

Vs. Singlehander: In saltwater applications, a single hander just needs to be a good double haul instrument. Probably less than 1% of striper fishermen really care how a rod casts without "riding the rod hard and putting it away wet" meaning double hauling it to within a inch of it's life each and every outing. Trout rods certainly, but a striper rod is hardly ever judged for it's finesse. The problem is such a rod must be small, light and easy on the joints to be used that way all day. Although a single hander is a pleasure to fish in many conditions it is damn near impossible in others and tends to put the angler into a certain niche using smaller flies, not fishing to the full spectrum of predatory behavior out there.

The 1111 is cast like any two-handed rod - no double haul. Throw it back, letting the line slip back to the best grain/length, then throw it forward. The rod will do the rest! Very low strain for the 100ft (or 150ft with shooting heads) you get. But you'll note a few things right off that are different from spey rods:

1) It's action is "tight" - there is nothing floppy about this rod. After several tries we have a taper that flexes well into the blank without being soft or too stiff, although make no mistake this rod is fast and generates serious line speed.

2) It's light - only approx 8oz, yet the thick-walled IM8 graphite composition is very tough. It's survived (with minor consequence) some tooth-jarring mishaps at claves that would have sent other rods to their grave. Thoroughly gamefish tested to 30 pound class fish, still testing.

3) It's shorter - 11' long, with the handle under the arm it's not at all troublesome to strip a long cast back to the butt with either a single handed or a double handed retrieve.

4) Saltwater grade hardware - Huge Fuji SiC strip guides, jumbo titanium tip, highest quality cork with composite cork reinforcing all edges (butt, both sides of seat, check area) on a heavy duty cobalt blue IM8 blank.

Compared to the great spey rods of the world, this is really a pretty lousy spey rod and it's much more than anyone could cast with one arm double hauling all day. BUT put two hands on it and use it for it's intended purpose, and yes, 100... 120... even approaching 150 foot casts have been pretty easy to make with one backcast, two at most. These figures depend mostly on the line you use.

One line I really like is a store-bought 12wt Wulff semi-clear Bermuda Triangle (tarpon line). It's not a good cold weather line but the stiffness in the big game core and the head weight (440 grains approx) at 30ft shoots the whole line with ease. Great for a 3 seasons intermediate line in the surf - excluding winter.

For a sinking line Tim Rajeff's shooting heads are amazing. With a braided running line you can put the head at the goal line from the midfield stripe on a soccer field. With a store-bought running line (coating) you lose 6-12 feet of shooting distance, in the crease but no goal.

With a braided running line and a specialized homemade LC-13 head you can put the cast into the net from the mid-stripe. GOAL! Total cost to make this line = $20. But this is not a practical line (and I use that term loosely) for fishing... just fun in the field. Actually, there are a couple of nasty riptides where I will be trying this next season but very specialized scenarios only.

The 8/9 Skandinavian Rio Spey heads are a versatile solution - they not only overhead cast easily over 100' but they spey cast underhand style beautifully as well. I have the tri-color currently and am considering buying the others as well (floating & w/tips).

Joe in summary there are many good off-the-shelf lines to use with this type of rod. You can get to 110-120ft distances with store bought lines. For an extra 20-30ft per cast, go to a shooting head system.

It's a challenge keeping 100' of running line in a stripping basket anyway... a solid 110-120ft cast is the best all-around for fishing purposes IMHO.

The beauty is, we are all still pioneers in this game... you could come up with the best line configuration of all, who knows! It's all about discovery, hence the name "Atlantis".
 

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Long casts

Wow, juro!
From the halfway line to goal line it is 45 to 60 meters (148 to 197ft). On a field fit for international games it would be 50 to 55 meters (164 to 180ft). These dimensions are given by FIFA.

So you have to cast atleast 148ft to score a goal. That's quite much I'd say.
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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sms -

Thanks for the details, I was going to look it up. These are probably not regulation fields, used for students. I would have to say the 148ft measure is correct based on the length of running line, head and leader to the yarn.

I want to make it clear that casting distance is not the primary reason we produced this rod, the primary reason is fishablity. According to a recent discussion with Topher Browne, tournament distances with two-handers is double that distance! :eyecrazy:

At 11ft, 11/12wt and two hands on the task it's easy to manage for a whole day of fishing and offers some distinct advantages over a single handed rod. It will not replace the single handed rod's place nor will it beat the tournament two-handers in a contest but it will fish it's way through situations where neither of those two could.

The criteria for this design was a whole 11/12wt flyline via the "beach cast", a switch, slip and shoot overhand cast. That it does easily with a 35 yard (105ft) line with a full leader. Distances beyond that require shooting heads.

Casting is only one of the important characteristics, we tried to address all of them with this design.

Thanks again for the confirmation.
 

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Damn fish ladder
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199 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Thanks To All

I so appreciate your input and information. I'll need to save my pennies for a bit and will buy an Atlantis for the spring striper run

Best-

Joe
 
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