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#&%*@^# Caster
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3,058 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Well I am thinking my loop adapted head is a little light for throwing tips and heavy flies so I am looking to get a new line. Just not enough to turn the heavy stuff over but I still like it for light tips and floating line work.

Checked through the archives and did not really get a consensus on the windcutter combo and where people are cutting it.

Seems like somewhere in the 28-30' range is about right? I guess I can start cutting at 35 and work my way down....

Anybody have some first hand experience they would like to share?

-sean
 

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637 Posts
Not experience, but something in the works

I'm working up a Skagit line based on the WC 11/12/13 at 43' and about 730 grains to try on my Steelhead Specialist. I usually fish long bellies, especially with our Michigan winters, but want to experiment. If we actually get the above freezing temps forecast for this weekend, I'll get to try it out. I'll let you know how it works. Based on what's been posted in other threads, I suspect such a line would work well on both the Steelhead and Skagit Specialists.
 

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Indicators Anonymous
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846 Posts
Sean-
For what its worth, I tried a 10/11/12 WC w/o the midsection on my 1308 Custom and it felt a little light...I know the 1308 and the Skagit are two totally differant but maybe that can give you an idea on what you can get out of the 11/12/13 WC.

On the other hand, I hooked Homer up with a 11/12/13 WC that he is going to pilfer the belly section from to build up a line for his Skagit Specialist (much easier then trying to dig up #14 DT :hehe: ).
 

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Jolly Buddha
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504 Posts
Skagit

Carl,
That windcutter should be the one you want, 730 grains will work and lenght is just perfect!:smokin:

I'll I know about line makeing I learned from the best!
Ed & Marlow:D
 

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Indicators Anonymous
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846 Posts
...or do I what I do and just have Brian build me up one. :devil:

When it comes to splicing, looping and forumulating lines, Brian truely is an artist. As good as they get...
 

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#&%*@^# Caster
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3,058 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Brian maybe you could start a side business and sell some of these to us guys who hate to cut and fuss about with our lines. ;)

Actually today I casted a seriously awesome combo on the skagit rod today. I ordered a 10/11 Hardy Salmon Shooting head (same head as the mach 1 without the running line) and it really goes. Never seen a line generate so much speed and power.

Everyone who cast it today was shooting 20-30 feet of running line with little effort on the forward stroke.

Even after shooting that much line the drag was still getting chirped from the line shooting out there. It is 49' so not really a skagit line but a rocking combo for sure. Also a ton of fun to cast...

-sean
 

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Jolly Buddha
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504 Posts
Lines

FFF
WSCFFF
WSC
EFFC
SCPAB
OYEA Fishing!

No time for side bus:eyecrazy:

Foregot
SIRC
SWC
SFEG


Ed Ward & Marlow have should me the ins and outs, So all credit goes to them!
not me:)
 

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637 Posts
WC 11/12/13 Skagit line recipe/details

I've done some initial testing with the line I customized, and it feels good. I've still got a ways to go with the sustained anchor Skagit style, but the line is not the issue there (just my place at the bottom of the learning curve--coming from the longer belly world).

The concept behind this line was the success of Windcutter tips lines with just the tip 2 removed. When I started studying the numbers, I saw that the weight would be closer to target if the line was designed based on removing tip 1 instead.

The belly is the WC 11/12/13 cut and looped at 27.5' (same as factory). My original floater (tip 2) is cut at 16' (43.5' total) to use as the floating tip. Floating setup weighs 733 grains.

I made interchangeable 16' tips by splicing together pieces of Mid-Spey 10/11 belly (16 gr/ft) and T-14. In Michigan I fish very cold water, and so made the tips in 2' increments. One Mid-spey 10/11 makes all of the tips listed below.

The first tip has a 10' floating belly looped at both ends to attach the smallest tips (couldn't have done with 1 Mid-Spey otherwise). The two tips to attach to that are 1'Floating (F) spliced to 4' T-14 ( 15' tip, head wt 727gr), and 6' of T-14--(16' tip, head wt 739). Other tips are all spliced:

8'F + 8' T-14 = 735 gr. (total head weight)
6'F + 10' T-14 = 731 gr.
4'F + 12' T-14 = 727 gr.
2'F + 14' T-14 = 723 gr.
16' T-14 = 719 gr.

50# Gudebrod braided leader butt made into double catch loops (see Dan Blanton website) fits well on the floating line. Braided mono overlaps floating line about 4". Single 9-10 turn nail knot of 10# maxima, coated with Loon Soft Head. The hinging is reduced by stripping about 3/8" of coating from the tip of the floating line to be inserted into the loop. When fully inserted, it bypasses that much of the braided mono that is caught back inside the exterior braid (optional drop of liquid superglue on that overlap to reinforce, but not needed). Coat from overlap with Floater out to the end of the loop with Loon Soft Head (thanks Kush). Use your fingers to work the Soft Head into the braided mono. Small loop, no hinging.

The line gurus will probably say I overbuild the floater-to-T-14 splices, but here's what I did. Strip 1/2-3/4" of coating from floating line core. On the floater, starting from where you stopped stripping coating, take a razor blade and slice about 1/4" off one side of the floating line coating, being very careful not to nick the core. This is to make a 'shelf' to nest the end of the T-14 when wrapping the two together. I used kevlar thread, but whatever you like is fine. Wrap over the core/T-14 connection and the 'shelf'/T-14 overlap, then cut off whatever floater core is sticking out. My whole wrap is about 1/2" long, and tapers from the thickness of the floating line down.

After that slide a piece (about 4") of 50# braid up the T-14, over the splice/wrap, and secure it on both sides with 9-10 turn nail knots. Coat the nail knots with Loon Soft Head. Smooth, strong splice and no hinging.

On the 6' and 16' tips (all t-14), the braided loops are from smaller Gudebrod braid (25 or 35#).

This is my first experience with building a line. Hopefully it gives a good starting point for others. Materials:

WC 11/12/13 floater
MS 10/11
Rio T-14 70'
Gudebrod 50# braided mono leader butt material
Loon Soft Head or equivalent
mono for nail knots

Good fishin'
:)

Carl
 

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Jolly Buddha
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504 Posts
Sean

SA WF-8/9-F Spey Short Belly
Try it you'll like it!:whoa:
Try Ed W. style sink tip:smokin:
 

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response to email question about loop to line connection

Sorry for any confusion. The double-catch does not involve the core of the line, but is key to the making of the braided loop.

Check out Dan Blanton's website. On that site hunt up the technical articles, and specifically the one on making braided loops. Simply put, a double catch loop is made by pulling the end around back inside the braid (making loop), then taking the end out the side of the braid, and tucking that end back into the braid 1/4" further down. Taking the end out of and then back into the braid makes the 'chinese finger puzzle' grip effect even stronger. The loops I make are exactly like those on Dan's site.

What I'm doing different is overlapping a little stripped line core with the tag of braid left inside the braided loop when the line and loop are slid together:

If you think about a loop made as above, there's a tag of braid left inside the long end of the braided mono that you slide onto your line. I leave that inside tag about 1/2" long.

Let's envision putting that loop onto the fly line after stripping only about 3/8 of an inch of core. So you slide that end into the open end of the braid, and begin inchworming the braid onto the floating line. As you get near the end, the idea is to have the 3/8" of stripped core slide either past or inside the 1/2" tag of braid that's also inside the loop. The floating line is in all the way when the end of that 1/2" braid tag butts up against the fat coating of the fly line.

Then, when you rub in/coat the loop (and 1/4" overlap onto the floating line) and braided mono with Loon Soft Head (dries much quicker than Aquaseal), the core of the flyline bonds with that inside tag of braid to make that connection stronger and prevent hinging. On some of my connections, I've put a drop of superglue on that core/innerbraid overlap, but I've found the Soft Head is enough.

I hope that answers your question.
 

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#&%*@^# Caster
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3,058 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thank Brian and I will give that a shot. Have heard real good things about those new SA lines.

Have you tried a hardy 10/11 shooting head(or a Mach 1 10/11) on the skagit?

Try it, you will like it:devil:

-sean
 

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Jolly Buddha
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504 Posts
Sean

Every time I see Sharp Sparkey he has something new to try.
I'm a sucker for new THINGS!:hehe:
I took 14ft. off the new line.:devil:
Just right for (Ed W.) sink tip!:smokin:
The overall line was 54ft. Now it's 50ft.:smokin:
No I haven't tryed the others.
 

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Jolly Buddha
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504 Posts
lines lines lines

I got three different line going now maybe I should go and trym:eyecrazy:
 
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