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Discussion Starter #1
I have purchased two CND Atlantis rods, the 11'1" for 11wt and the new 11' for 9/10 wt. They are lightweight and beautifully crafted, thanks Juro.


Any suggestions on head weight and lengths for these rods? I have searched this board for Juro's early comments and cannot quite dial in the ideal combinations. Could anyone point me in the direction for saltwater intermediate lines and I will also use some sinking heads in heavy currents.


My casts are easily over 100ft but only with overloaded weights with respect to earlier comments on the 11 wt rod.

Regards,
Fred Krow
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Hi Fred -

It's getting late for the fall migration but when the spring migration starts up the two-handed approach on the beach is money. I hope we can hook up over the winter at a casting clave or show to try various lines.

Surf-tamer lines (at head)...
Length range: 35-45ft, 38ft being a great happy medium
Grains: 500-600, depending on head length where longer carries more grains

Although forever experimenting, I am settling in on the 38ft (35-45ft) length and grains in the mid to high 500's as a good middle ground with the Surf-tamer. Long lines cast great but leave too much line out there between casts. Short lines strip in tight but can't hold a loop over 100ft very well.

The all-arounder will take most SW 9wt and 10wt lines and cast them easily to 80ft, but if you want to approach 110-120ft with the same effort I would load it with a 10wt 35ft shooting head and a high quality running line. As light as it is there is ample reserve power so you can reach past the century mark easily while still getting spanked by a fat schoolie.

The best thing to do is try some lines for your own stroke and preferences. We should plan to hook up outside Danbury, Somerset, Marlboro, Wilmington; and I plan on meistering the annual springlave on the beach in '05 again.
 

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Here we go again!
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Anyone have a chance to try the new Airflo beach line designed specifically for the 11/11 Atlantis? I know it has not yet been released to the public, but certain industry guys (Juro??) should have been able to get ahold of prototypes by now.

I await comments on the new line and it's imminent availabillity (hint, hint Mike at Redshed).
 

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Is that a clear intermediate full line? I'm working on casting shooting heads but when it comes right down to it I'm no good at it. I am coming to realize I prefer a full line.

I have a 10wt multi head system that casts nicely on a 10wt/9wt 9' rod. Has anyone tried the multi head system in an 11 or 12wt on the atlantis 11?
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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The intermediate version is clear for the first 35ft and bonded to a light blue running line, which is probably the best beach running line I've ever touched. It doesn't stretch even when setting the hook at two-handed distances, sits in the basket like an obedient dog, and is slick as with all their lines.

The sinker is a type 9 head that will defeat gale force winds with a grocery fly. You can add a polyleader as an air brake to slow it down for smaller flies or less challenging conditions. I will post an update when I get my final samples.
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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I think it's time for more slo-mo video :)

IMHO there are a couple of distinct factors that make shooting heads fly straight and far on these rods. Verbal doesn't always cut it so I'll try to get them into a visual medium before the snow flies otherwise I'll have to find a black line!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Juro,

Thanks for quick reply,,,,my experimenting today with the 11ft 11wt rod had the best results with an Cortland 444SL Big Game (old cream colored line, cut to make a head) Intermediate head of 36ft and 500gr.

I am working with Grady Allen at Upcountry Sportfishing on lines and casting technique for the Atlantis rods. We are observing each other casting and experimenting with lines (three days running now).

We also tested a 13wt intermediate clear head cut from a tarpon line (S.A. I believe) it would load the rod a little better but was not quite ideal. We did not measure the head length.

We appear to be closing in on your recommendation for line wt and head length for the Surf-Tamer,,,,,, cannot wait to cast some of Mark Sedotti's Slammer flies with this rod.

The new AirFlo lines designed for this rod are in the works and will be released soon according to Tim Rajeff. One is an Intermedate line with integral running line and the second is a sinking line.

One important item we have discovered with these rods is to slow down the casting stroke and quickly pop the rod at the final S-U-A-S. A long rod path as taught by Left Kreh is also very helpful for control of casting loops,,,,a slow steady acceleration with final quick lower hand pop of about 2-3" makes the rod really perform.


Juro, some slow motion video would be very welcome.

You and CND are revolutionizing the fly rod in the surf,,,I cannot cast a 9ft 10-11wt like I did 10yrs ago,,,this 11ft design makes it very smooth and easy to obtain distances without exceptional arm strength.

Regards,
Fred Krow
 

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If you are over hand casting, Rio makes the 26' DC Striper Versi Tip. It has a 100' intermediate running line and 4 density compensated 26' heads.

If you fish deep water, you can buy Rio's new 30' T-14 shooting head that weighs in at 420 gr.

Using overhand casts, this combo works well with the Meiser 10'6" switch rod in a boat and with his 13'6' Ocean rod on the beach. It is a cannon with the Sage 7141 from the shore.

One of the best kept secrets if you are fishing water that is deep and only need one tip is the Rio Striper 26' DC line. It has 100' of Rio's intermediate running line combined with a built in 26' 350 grain DC head.

It is great for overhand casting. However, I can do a fairly good spey cast from the shore with Meise's ocean rod, my Sage 7141 or my ARC 1409 with this line. I just set up the d loop in the water in front and to the right of me and cast it. This line is Ken Hanley's favorite in his video/DVD, "Saltwater Salmon on the Fly" . He uses it with a single hand rod.
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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fredtrout -

Both rods will spey cast, and spey rods will overhead cast - but some rods are more suitable for each task respectively in most people's opinions. I have tried underhand casting with the Atlantis using short spey heads up to 55' and had great fun with them. However at 11' they are more suitable for overhead casting in my opinion when compared to the 20+ other two-handers in the product line.

That being said I want to experiment more with short spey underhand casting with these rods in the future and I will report on results if you are interested. Also, these are great rods for king salmon (and chum :hihi: ) since the shorter length makes them great fish fighting tools.

Grandpa Spey -

I am a BIG fan of Rio products and the hits just keep on coming (e.g. the new Grandspey). I use the 26 DC lines a lot, it's a workhorse line that gets right down to business in the brine. It's a great line for casting single or double hand to 100ft distances.

When casting over 100' distances though a 26ft head is a little too short - the loop energy passes right thru such a short head before the full casting distance can be realized, hence my tendency to lean toward 35-40' heads when this matters. This length will hold a loop longer, even 130-150ft. The Rio Scandinavian and non-Spey Windcutters fit this bill perfectly.
 

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Cool. I´m sort of looking into the market of short spey rods for tight spots (w/ short shooting heads) but still with ability to handle big fish, for example the Loop Green 11,6 9/10.
 

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Three thoughts. First, the RIO DC lines, both versitip and one-piece, actually have longer "heads" than 26 feet. The sinking, brown portion is always 26 feet, but the intermediate running line has 6-8 foot taper before the sinking portion starts. With the Versitip, it yields a head of 32 feet, I think, and for the one-piecers, it's around 34. So, unlike a true shooting head, with an abrupt switch from thin running line to head, there's a transition zone. In fact, RIO is now selling a striper specific running line with this taper to help support leadcore, t14, etc. on the cast.

Second, RIO has a brand new line of redesigned 30 ft. shooting heads (called RioMAX) that are supposed to deal with the problem Juro mentioned about running out of energy too soon. They have a thin back taper that apparently won't pull the back of the head down prematurely. I've got one -- a 12 weight type 8 that weighs 500 grains, and it's a rocket. I'd be really curious to try a floater or intermediate to see if it really deals with the problem, because it would be nice only to have to pick up 30 feet (rather than 35-38) from the surf.

Finally, it's pretty hard to find intermediate heads of over 500 grains. A 12 weight conventional 30 foot head should be 380 grains. Airflo's 35 footers in the highest weight (12) are all under 500 grains according to the specs on the www.rajeffsports.com site. I tried the intermediate on my friend's Atlantis and it worked well, but it's in the 475 category, and I wonder what a 550 at the same length could do. That same head also works well on the Temple Fork 12X12, which probably requires slightly fewer grains than the Atlantis.

And, finally finally, I tried out that Atlantis 9/10 at a shop the other day and it was awesome -- maybe less of a hardcore surf rod (although regular surf would be fine) but great for modest surf, flats, estuaries.... It's on the holiday list.

Happy Holidays everyone.
 
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