I haven't seen any of these rods yet, but everything i heard on the cnd's is that they will fit my needs. Most of the fishing i do is on smaller michigan streams (the PM), and is using indicator rigs. Just about had my mind made up on the cnd custom 7/8, but Juro said i might want the 8/9 for the occasional salmon. Also just talked to a guide that got to cast the new orvis speys, he was pretty immpressed. Really liked the 12'6 7/8? Any suggestions?
cnd 7/8,8/9 or orvis 12'6 7/8 - MI streams
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7,105 Posts
Hey Sinker...
I don't know about the Orvis rods but you will be pleased with the CND Customs. I also vote for the 8/9. You should test drive the rods on the river. That is the very best way to find what suits your ability, style, and fishing methods. Take care, MJC
Yes, I am prejudiced.:smokin:
"Wild $teelhead C&R gives me a thrill, why don't we all make it the drill"
I don't know about the Orvis rods but you will be pleased with the CND Customs. I also vote for the 8/9. You should test drive the rods on the river. That is the very best way to find what suits your ability, style, and fishing methods. Take care, MJC
Yes, I am prejudiced.:smokin:
"Wild $teelhead C&R gives me a thrill, why don't we all make it the drill"
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504 Posts
I'll seconded it (what Skilly said)
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338 Posts
$.02
If you get a two hander-get one from a SPEY ROD COMPANY, not a DOG BED COMPANY that happens to sell a few spey rods.
A switch style rod may have more utility for Mi streams, with the exception of the big ones (Mo, Big Man, St Joe, Grand, Ausable) The ability to strip retrieve line is a big asset when nymphing, and I personally felt the line control advantages of a two hander (super mending!) was off set somewhat by the difficulty in stripping in line. A switch style rod gives you the best of both worlds.
But, a 12-13 foot spey rod can be used on some of Mi's smaller rivers pretty well. They are a blast on bigger rivers, a blast for swinging flies with tips, and they do offer some kick-butt mending for lobbing indicators-if that is your thing. There maybe a few places where it is an advantage, and a few where the length is a real pain.
If you want to pollute your rod by catching Salmon on it, a 8/9 will do double duty pretty well. Another advantage of a heavier rod, is that the added grains in the line make it easier to speycast big ole indicators and a bunch of shot. If you wanted a swinging rod, the 7/8 would probably be great, and combined with the right lines, casting a reasonable amount of weight shouldn't be a problem. If you are a light tippet guy, you might want to look at the smaller rod, as you originally were aiming at.
Ok, FIRE AWAY!
If you get a two hander-get one from a SPEY ROD COMPANY, not a DOG BED COMPANY that happens to sell a few spey rods.
A switch style rod may have more utility for Mi streams, with the exception of the big ones (Mo, Big Man, St Joe, Grand, Ausable) The ability to strip retrieve line is a big asset when nymphing, and I personally felt the line control advantages of a two hander (super mending!) was off set somewhat by the difficulty in stripping in line. A switch style rod gives you the best of both worlds.
But, a 12-13 foot spey rod can be used on some of Mi's smaller rivers pretty well. They are a blast on bigger rivers, a blast for swinging flies with tips, and they do offer some kick-butt mending for lobbing indicators-if that is your thing. There maybe a few places where it is an advantage, and a few where the length is a real pain.
If you want to pollute your rod by catching Salmon on it, a 8/9 will do double duty pretty well. Another advantage of a heavier rod, is that the added grains in the line make it easier to speycast big ole indicators and a bunch of shot. If you wanted a swinging rod, the 7/8 would probably be great, and combined with the right lines, casting a reasonable amount of weight shouldn't be a problem. If you are a light tippet guy, you might want to look at the smaller rod, as you originally were aiming at.
Ok, FIRE AWAY!
mjyp, i have fished the pm several times with a 13' spey rod, and didn't really have any problems, but also know that using the indicator rigs, we weren't doing full blown single and double speys. I'll check out Meisers rods.
Swing, tell me a bit more about your thoughts onthe 7/8 vs 8/9... is the 7/8 to light for the occasional salmon? I too agree that they are not the greatest fish in the world, but i usually end up chasing them a couple of times a year. The set ups we are fishing now only use about 1" of hollow core weight on average, alot less weight than most indicator rigs... if that helps tip the scale towards the 7/8?
thanks for your help!
Swing, tell me a bit more about your thoughts onthe 7/8 vs 8/9... is the 7/8 to light for the occasional salmon? I too agree that they are not the greatest fish in the world, but i usually end up chasing them a couple of times a year. The set ups we are fishing now only use about 1" of hollow core weight on average, alot less weight than most indicator rigs... if that helps tip the scale towards the 7/8?
thanks for your help!
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338 Posts
Sinker, as far as my thoughts, well, they might not be the best advice to follow, as my experiences nymphing with a spey rod have not been terribly numerous. What I did find was that 8/9 lines made it less tiring and easy to spey cast the "dude bobber" rigs commonly used. But I never really tried to fine tune a lighter set up to make it work well. By cutting into the front taper of a short belly line, I would think it would be easy to make a 7 wt do the trick. I just never experimented enough to get a set up I really liked, as the Spey rod I was using was a shop demo, and I prefered to nymph with my singlehander. This was a few years ago when I was living in Michigan. There are a few Great Lakes guys who commonly use this site (MYJP, Voodo fly, Carl, Peter SC, numerous others) who could probably consult you with more first hand experience.
As far as the 8/9 vs 7/8 for fighting the occasional salmon...well, some of those brutes are unlandable with a 12 wt, some don't do a whole lot and are easy enough on a lighter rod. In rivers with a lot of obstructions for fish to toast you on (the PM immediately comes to mind) a heavier rod will have a little more backbone to lean on the fishys. But, a lot depends on what you fish for tippet. If you are one of those 2 lb guys, a 12 wt isn't going to be forgiving enough to play a fish, even though it may have lots of power. Also, a 7 wt with a stiff butt may be more powerful for playing fish than a 9 wt with a soft butt. Line wt isn't always the biggest factor. What all this adds up to is, TRY the rods. They can tell you more in a day than all of the info you can find on this site.
Also, you will surely end up with more than one spey rod if you get the bug, so maybe go into your shopping with this in mind. Man, I am rambling. Sorry, I get carried away. I hope this makes a little sense.
As far as the 8/9 vs 7/8 for fighting the occasional salmon...well, some of those brutes are unlandable with a 12 wt, some don't do a whole lot and are easy enough on a lighter rod. In rivers with a lot of obstructions for fish to toast you on (the PM immediately comes to mind) a heavier rod will have a little more backbone to lean on the fishys. But, a lot depends on what you fish for tippet. If you are one of those 2 lb guys, a 12 wt isn't going to be forgiving enough to play a fish, even though it may have lots of power. Also, a 7 wt with a stiff butt may be more powerful for playing fish than a 9 wt with a soft butt. Line wt isn't always the biggest factor. What all this adds up to is, TRY the rods. They can tell you more in a day than all of the info you can find on this site.
Also, you will surely end up with more than one spey rod if you get the bug, so maybe go into your shopping with this in mind. Man, I am rambling. Sorry, I get carried away. I hope this makes a little sense.
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267 Posts
HMMMMMMMMMM
I currently have the 1307SP (Custom) rod and love it. But if you are going to be indicator fishing primarily I would go with the 1308SP. After reading the replies to your question I am wondering if you are using "Indy" rigs as some people think you are or are you Indicator fishing with a small float/indicator some shot and a nymph or egg style of fly. If you are truly INDY rigging I don't think I would recommend a SPEY rod for that application. AS for a line I purchased a WC floater and cut it back 18'. I put a loop on it and I can pretty much turn over a tank and cast to about 80' with it. Good Luck and let us know what you end up with!
I currently have the 1307SP (Custom) rod and love it. But if you are going to be indicator fishing primarily I would go with the 1308SP. After reading the replies to your question I am wondering if you are using "Indy" rigs as some people think you are or are you Indicator fishing with a small float/indicator some shot and a nymph or egg style of fly. If you are truly INDY rigging I don't think I would recommend a SPEY rod for that application. AS for a line I purchased a WC floater and cut it back 18'. I put a loop on it and I can pretty much turn over a tank and cast to about 80' with it. Good Luck and let us know what you end up with!
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338 Posts
C&D-no spey rod. No worky!! Pure evil!
:devil:
If the Chuck and duck is your thing, don't waste your time and $$$ on a two hander. It has no advantage, and many disadvantages, which I won't discuss, because they should be obvious. Thanks Chromer for the catch there!
:devil:
If the Chuck and duck is your thing, don't waste your time and $$$ on a two hander. It has no advantage, and many disadvantages, which I won't discuss, because they should be obvious. Thanks Chromer for the catch there!
I am not talking about C&D... gave that up a long time ago. Thanks for the help everyone, i think i am gonna go with the CND 1308 custom. I will check out the WC setup... what i have currently used on the last couple of guide trips i have been on is a standard 12 wt DT, cut in half, and put on the reel backwards, it will turn over a bowling ball!
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1,425 Posts
indicator tip
not long ago while in the only fly shop in wellston MI, on the big manistee, i noticed some packaged tip sections labled "indicator tip" in with some of the other two hand lines & accesories. i think they may have been packaged by rio, but couldn't say for sure. i didn't look them over, but would hazard the guess that they are intended for WC tips lines. SG
not long ago while in the only fly shop in wellston MI, on the big manistee, i noticed some packaged tip sections labled "indicator tip" in with some of the other two hand lines & accesories. i think they may have been packaged by rio, but couldn't say for sure. i didn't look them over, but would hazard the guess that they are intended for WC tips lines. SG
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1,182 Posts
OK Dr. Swing, I'll rise to your fly
I fish the PM at least one weekend per year. I bring a 7 1/2' 5wt and a 9' 8wt, both loaded with correct DT floating lines. The PM is too narrow for anything longer than a 10 footer. (Although a Meiser 10.5' might be OK. I'll need to test/verify that though, Bob )
. A longer rod becomes a pain in the arse when your moving through the forest. A longer rod will never properly load, unless you REALLY over line it. Then, what's the point?
Sorry to ruffle feathers, just a reality check.
Gary
P.S. Don't let me discourage. Part of fly fishing is the pleasure of the presentation. If you are pleased with using a 2 hander on this stream, by all means, do it.
I fish the PM at least one weekend per year. I bring a 7 1/2' 5wt and a 9' 8wt, both loaded with correct DT floating lines. The PM is too narrow for anything longer than a 10 footer. (Although a Meiser 10.5' might be OK. I'll need to test/verify that though, Bob )
. A longer rod becomes a pain in the arse when your moving through the forest. A longer rod will never properly load, unless you REALLY over line it. Then, what's the point?Sorry to ruffle feathers, just a reality check.
Gary
P.S. Don't let me discourage. Part of fly fishing is the pleasure of the presentation. If you are pleased with using a 2 hander on this stream, by all means, do it.
Voodoo, i have fished the PM quite a few times with 13' speys... granted, this is not what i would call "traditional spey casting", more tip casting as peter calls it, it is definitly feasible. The longer rod really gives you an advantage in being able to control your drift and mends, and allows you to get alot longer drifts. Also, it makes it alot easier to cast a big rig attached to the end of your line. Some of the top guides on the river fish this type of setup, it may not be ideal... but its a heck of alot better than c&d, and it is very effective way to fish a river like the PM.
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