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Here we go again!
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620 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A couple of questions. Looking at the CND Skagit rod, 13 feet for a 9. I have 2 CND Expert rods (1306, 1409) and after playing with them a while find them to lean to the light end of their line designation. For example, I like the 7/8/9 windcutter on the 9/10 rod, a 6/7 midspey on the 6/7 rod with a few feet of belly pulled up into the guides. I am finding that these rods cast sweeter with a line that doesn't load the rod so deeply (my casting style/preference I'm sure). They have a softer feel and like to be stroked, not pushed hard (again, my own opinion at this stage of my casting experience). I do like this. How is the action on the Skagit rod compared to the expert, and is it a true 9 weight? How would you compare the Skagit with the Expert 13 foot 8/9? Also, would this rod be a good choice for someone who likes long bellied lines like the XLT?
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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1,771 Posts
Moose -

The Skagit is a 13'8" and yes it's a true spey 9wt line rod, if there is such a thing. What I mean by that is if you put say an 8/9 Rio Midspey on it the rod works really well. I have spent most of my time with this rod using the lines it was designed for, but it's certainly at home with the mid-length spey lines and has a way of producing a laser loop. This has been a common response from customers, this rod wants to concentrate the power into the waveform very efficiently.

I've not cast the XLT on this rod (yet) but I have on other 13ft rods and would say that casting less than the whole head length and shooting some line is very effective, and with a flatter v-loop and the lighter designations you should be fine with extended belly lines until you wade deeply or have a lot of strange eddy currents downriver to deal with. Personally I would opt for the Steelhead Specialist or Salar for extended belly lines but that's just my own taste. Longer rods certainly make that lift and sweep a lot easier and hold the point of the d-loop off the water easier, and since you have to start ahead of the actual anchor with long lines the more length in the rod the better IMHO.

But it's strengths are in the ability to convert water-loads into powerful casts in the style of Ed Ward and other Skagit casters. Ed's only gripe has been that because the rod wants to throw 90-100ft, he ends up fishing that far "because he can" so we wants a less powerful version for smaller rivers. I wish I had that problem :p Anyway we aim to please and don't be surprised what Nobuo will pull out of his hat soon.

I am also a fan of the moderately light designations as long as the rod still bends and does the work for me. I know some guys like the stiffer stuff but when I am fishing I want the rod to be working harder than I am and you can tell when you tip the glass at the end of a good day on the river whether the rod was being pushed hard or not by your arms. All things being equal the exact match is best, but so is world peace and nuclear fusion. Actually I shouldn't complain - the variation in lines is what lets us find the line we each really enjoy.

Good fishing,
Juro
 

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Short rod with long belly line

Moose,

Juro is right. A short rod with a long belly line like XLT seems not a good combination unless you want to leave portion of belly in the reel :D. So, choosing a right combination of rod and line for your casting style will save you whole a lot of time to become a proficient caster.

Since you already have CND 15' and 13' Experts. You might want to think about 14'4" Steelhead Specialist to bridge the gap. I have not casted this rod yet but I am very pleased with Salar which is a bigger version of Steelhead. They have the same action (what I heard).

Come out to try my Salar. See if you like the action. I will be at Watt Ave. today, tomorrow and the next day. Until May when wife gets home then you know why Simon doesn't show up at Watt Ave afterward. see you soon.

Simon Hsieh
 

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Pullin' Thread
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4,694 Posts
Moose,

You bring up something inadvertently that cause problems for folks, especially those new to spey or those more experienced spey casters who are used to seeing 2 line designations on a rod (i.e. 14' for 8/9, etc. CND, Loop, and T&T put a single line designation on their rods (i.e. T&T 1409, Loop BL9140, CND Custom 1409). The CND, Loop, and T&T rods simply mean that they are 14' rods for a 9 line, or in spey line parlance, an 8/9 line.

Many folks make the mistake of assuming that any of the three rods I mention (CND Custom 1409, T&T 1409, Loop BL9140) are made for a 9/10 line. They are actually made for an 8/9 line.
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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1,771 Posts
Actually it depends on the line...

True if you are talking about Rio'd Midspeys buy the 1409 SP likes the Rio 9/10/11 Windcutter. Then again if you rate by Wulff's Triangle Taper lines the rating is spot on. Now going over to Airflo's...

IMHO there simply is no such thing as an "8/9" line. Best to figure out how long of a head you like, then how many grains over that length of the head that the rod you have likes to cast. Once you have an idea of that you can use any brand line on that rod.

.02
 
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Flytyer,

While you may be right with CND and T&T, your assumption that the same is true of Loop does not mesh with their catalog. Regardless if it's the Yellow, Blue, Green, Black, or whatever, their catalog states that the 8124 is for an 8/9 line and the 9132 is for a 9/10 line. While I'm sure it depends on the line used and the caster involved, the fact of the matter is that Loop says the line designation in the model number is the lower number in a multi-weight line designation. The same is true on the box for the appropriate Adapted line for the rod. In other words, the line intended for the 8124 is called an 8/9 line. It's been my experience with the various lines I've used with the Loop speyrods that their designation is correct. That doesn't mean that a better caster might not prefer something lighter, but that could be true with any rod/line combination.
 

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Pullin' Thread
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4,694 Posts
JR Spey,

When speaking of the Loop Adapted lines, you are correct. However, the Loop Adapted line is a very short-head spey line, really a shooting head for 2-hand rods. And just like shooting heads with single-hand rods, you must overline by one line size to get the proper line load.

If a rod maker made a single-hand rod that was designed to cast say a 6 wt shooting head and called it a 6 wt rod, all would be fine as long as the one who bought the rod used nothing but 6 wt shooting heads on the rod. If the person didn't like shooting heads and wanted to use a WF line instead, he would have to go down a line size to a 5 wt for the same casting performance. And if someone else prefered either DT or the long-head single-hand lines with a head length of 50 to 66 ft, he would need to go down to a 4 wt for the same casting performance.

The same with Loop rods. Since they are designed to cast a specific Loop Adapted line, you need to go down a line size for short and mid-belly spey lines, and 2 sizes for the long-belly XLT or GS. Otherwise the action gets slowed down a bunch because of overloading the rod.

This is why I consider Loop rods to be the size on the rod, i.e. the BL9140 is a 9 wt rod which uses an 8/9/10 Windcutter, 8/9 MidSpey, 8/9 Delta, or 8/9 Long Delta.
 
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Flytyer,

First of all, the lines were created to be used on the rods, not the other way around. Almost all of the rods were developed before the Adpated lines came on the market. Since the markings on a rod mean more to a relatively new caster (in other words he/she will depend on them more than a very experienced speyfisher) it's important to note the Rio recommendations state that for a type B caster an 8124 is an 8/9/10 for Windcutter and 8/9 for Mid-Spey and so forth. The only exception is with the Black Series. Since inexperienced casters are almost invariably going to be better off with the type B listings, I think it sends them in the wrong direction to state it the way you have. This ignores the fact that I've had the same discussion with Christer of Loop and he has said that an 8/9 rod should be able to cast any 8/9 line around, not just the Adapted heads of that designation. All of your previous posts make it clear you are a powerful caster and prefer very fast rods. I have no doubt that you can make a very light line work on most rods. I'd just hate to see a relative newcomer read your post and end up buying the wrong line for him/her.
 

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Pullin' Thread
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JR Spey,

OK, I see where what I posted could get a new spey caster off to a less than ideal start. And for this I applogize to all.
 
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No apology necessary. In fact, your response to Leo M in the Spey Basic thread was right-on. The nice thing about this site is one can have a give-and-take and it remains civil.
 
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