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Trying to get some ideas for a click and pawl reel for my 3wt IMX Pro.
Cheers,
John


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Hardy Princess or Marquis 8/9. Using the Princess on my ACR 1172 , perfect balance. Marquis 8/9 will be latched to my Meiz 1193 as soon as she’s done!
 

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Not to high jack this post too much but what is the advantage of click paw. Never heard of it until the other day.
 

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Not to high jack this post too much but what is the advantage of click paw. Never heard of it until the other day.
/hijackmode engage

Oh boy, you could spend a whole day reading the discussions of this issue on speypages. It’s not an “advantage” as such, it is a choice. There are a lot of little reasons that can add up to a big reason while many people, myself included, prefer them when they are viable.

1. Pleasure. Added pleasure and connection to a fish - click and pawl reels don’t have an actual drag just an adjustable tension that is used mostly to protect from a major overrun, and pressure on the fish is micro-controlled depending on the exact style of the reel by the fisherman either by pressure against parts of the reel, against the line or both. If you are good at this it is BETTER than a regular drag because you intelligently control it in response to the state of the fish every second. In the process you are more aware and connected to the fish every second, and most people find it far more exciting and fulfilling.

2. Minimalism. If you think a regular disk drag is required you would be wrong %95 of the time.

3. History. Added connection to the history - not only is this the style of reel that most people used for more than a 100 years, but you can fish with the same reel design, and in many cases literally the same reels. I like knowing that many of my reels are older that I am and I am merely the latest person to catch fish with them, and maybe people will still be fishing a few of them when I’m gone.

4. Beauty. The best ones are often beautiful. Age can make them more beautiful in our eyes. In contrast some of the ugliest, soulless, cookie-cutter reels made today are cheap cast aluminum large arbors with cheap disk drags. And big ugly corporate logo!

5. Simplicity, see minimalism. Many click and pawl reels are mechanically very simple and can be serviced while standing in the river if necessary.

6. Sound. The sound of a high quality click and pawl reel can be thrilling, especially that first minute or so when you hook into a hot fish and are not in control. More feedback from the fish, this time through the ear.

We are starting to notice a theme here, right? All these are factors that make the experience more beautiful and satisfying. It’s not about a cold calculation of advantage or disadvantage. Yeah, it is a bit of rebellion against modernity which basically has put more and more technology between us and the experience of living.
Either you feel that is important, or you don’t, but I’d answer about same way that the Physicist Philip Anderson once answered a congressmen when asked how a certain advanced research project would contribute to the defense of the country. He said it woundn’t, but it would make the country more worth defending. Likewise I’d say click and pawl reel contribute nothing beyond a modern disk drag to merely catching a fish, but it make the experience more worth having. It’s perfectly fine for people not to feel this way, but if you think that sounds good then I highly suggest you try it!

/hijackmode off
 

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A step back rather than advantage. Less technology between you and the fish. And maybe a bit more fun.

There is zero technology in disc drag. a few piece of washers and a screw knob to add pressure. I don't understand why a fishing reel cost almost as same as a race car wheel and brake system
 

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There is zero technology in disc drag. a few piece of washers and a screw knob to add pressure. I don't understand why a fishing reel cost almost as same as a race car wheel and brake system
So technology was poor choice of words. How bout, "harkens back to a simpler time."
 

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There is zero technology in disc drag. a few piece of washers and a screw knob to add pressure. I don't understand why a fishing reel cost almost as same as a race car wheel and brake system
Simple answer.
Because people will pay it.
(BTW I too am guilty of this and likely will be again in the future.)

Mark
 

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There is zero technology in disc drag. a few piece of washers and a screw knob to add pressure. I don't understand why a fishing reel cost almost as same as a race car wheel and brake system
It’s not technology with a capital T of course, it’s something manufactured and used that works to do something you could do yourself just fine - and placed between you and the world you are interacting with. Something unnessary and often even working less well. So from that point of view it is very representative of the aspect technology that is at issue for some of us. Full disclosure the same people also tend to LOVE the technology that goes into finely-made click and pawl reels and other types of hand made ones, but especially the thought that went into them and the craftsmanship itself. So it not a critique of technology per se, just the way it is sometimes used.

Oh, and for the OP my answer would be Princess or Marquis 7. The 8/9 seems easier to find but the 7 was also popular. I find the the 8/9 balances my 13’ 3/4/5 Meiser Highlander (basically a 13’ 5 wt). Of course for a very light rod like that weight hardly matters, but seems like a light rod for smaller fish just feels right with the smallest reel that does the job. But if you are in the ballpark weightwise if you see one that just speaks to you then that is probably the one. :) At the 8/9 weight and I think not mentioned yet - the currently produced 3 3/8” wide spool Perfect, and a CFO V. Kinda more expensive though. The Marquis reels would probably be your best bet at cheaper in the Hardy group, or see if you can find the SA systems version - same reels at close to half the price usually. An old marquis with a black faced spool would be perfect.
 

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Not to high jack this post too much but what is the advantage of click paw. Never heard of it until the other day.
For gear and pawl reels there is more tactile and audible feedback as your fingers apply and release the pressure on the spool for resistance. While a disc drag does most of the stopping power. For me it's akin to driving an automatic vs a manual transmission. There is a lot more to do in a manual, but once you have it going it can be far more rewarding than an automatic if you like driving(my experience). But for most, an automatic would do just fine. And if you're 'hooked' on something anything really, you are more willing to try and search for ways to enhance your user experience and express that by the choices you make in buying/tying/making your gear and also by the method and approach you employ.
So, at the end of day, it is simply a personal choice.

Roland
 

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Nice thread for all of the right reasons !!
My new reels are lightweight, perfectly machined & super effective, my older English disc drag reels are competent, workmanlike and have great memories, my click & pawl Princess is a timeless beautiful classic and appreciated by the discerning. Think finery that is appreciated in classic cars, whiskey and cigars !! All good !
 

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Does the hardy princess come in more than one size?
No and yes. There is only one Hardy Princess with one size. However the Princess is just one reel from the old Hardy lightweight series that includes smaller reels (LRH and Featherweight) and larger reels (Zenith, St. Aidan, St. Andrew). All of these are built on essentially the same plan but different geometry going from matching up with fishing for the smallest trout up to salmon - so “a different size princess” would be one of those.
 

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Some of the most visceral sensations of my 'big fish' memories, be it steelhead or trout, was the sound of my pawl reel screaming... and the line burn, but mostly the screaming.
 

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Like always. It depends...
It seems to be, it also depends on the personal development one was going through. If one was beginning his own fishing career with Far East mass produced drag system reels, it may be a nice step back to do something different, knowing what’s really important in a reel for a lighter approach maybe, and bring some classic look or old day feelings into his fishing.

I have my complete arrangement of Marquis and other Hardy reels in the Vitrine. Not as a collector. They have been bought over the years in the late 70‘s and 80‘s for my fishing. They all got their good load of use.
I liked the beauty, the craftsmanship and simplicity over all modern drag system reels of those days. But after some years I started to tune them to more silence. Not that easy. It was still too much noise for me.
If one likes the sound for more action and Adrenalin, like I did in the beginnings, it’s okay of course. Have fun with them!
When I go fishing, I want to have no unnessary artificial noise, only water, wind, splashing fishes... Concentration to the main actors. It’s Adrenalin enough for me meanwhile. No need for hysterical screaming reels.
Sometimes over the fishing year some of my old reels get their outing in reminiscence of old days.

For the ones who have started with modern drag reels and step back now to those reels, the motivation is mostly:
Direct contact to the fish without a high tech drag system, simplicity, Beauty, craftsmanship of build, classic look and some more.

But the downsides have to be seen.
For the toughest of fishing and big species the average fishermen will cause higher mortality rates in case of c&r for own pleasure, highest available Adrenalin level because of additional noise from a hysterically screaming and beautiful old reel. The longer the better...
This is said, knowing there are of course people who don’t need more time by palming a reel without a drag system, my friends and myself included. But it’s that much easier with a reasonable large arbor reel and a reliable drag system, especially for the average angler, encouraged to do so because of something like a hype, back to old reels.
Times have changed and there are different approaches and needs.
The serious and responsible fishermen, fishing for the big ones with c&r as an option or even as a rule, use heavy gear and high quality reels with large arbor construction, drag system and a strong tendency to antireverse reels. That’s for the heavy gear.
And this happens in Europe with the salmon fishing, where the obviously ä hyped so called classic reels were coming from in old days, when c&r was not known. All for it’s time and it’s purpose.
That’s for the heavy gear and heavy fishing. Please excuse this excursion. Maybe it’s inconvenient, but it has to be said.

For the lighter and smaller species that’s not the problem. I myself don’t use any drag system here. But the disadvantage here is the weight of the classic reels and their limited capacity for the modern lines.
For balancing my smallest trout Spey, the 8/9 Marquis is too heavy to have the right balance, the 7 is too small for the lines needed. And I for myself do not like to be forced to screw my careful treated lines down to an unhealthy diameter.
The weight-balance and line-capacity problem increases with the unluckily downlocking reelseats on many of the Troutspey/Minispey rods as it is with the asked Loomis rod here.
I am in doubt, one of the mentioned classic reels will carry all lines needed or balance the rod in a proper way without changing grip from casting to fishing position. I tried every combination for my troutspey fishing, but it was not satisfying.
It will be a big compromise only for a classic look and a screaming reel. Again, it depends.... Where one may see the main reasons to like or not to like.

Just as an option to think over:
Form follows function.
I found acceptable balance and good line capacity for most of my switch rod approaches (down- and uplocking reel seats) with the Danielsson Original 2W.
In a different way those reels are already classic, without the same disadvantages. It’s a large arbour reel. The Original fulfills the wanted direct contact without drag system. Only resistance against overrun, same resistance forward and backwards.
But maybe it’s far too silent in comparison, only the sound of six ballbearings, like a water turbine on a fast running fish...
Only the streaming water, wind, the fish and you.

But as I finish to write this down, I realized, I really didn’t consider at all, some of you are living in bear country...
So don’t take my words all too serious and feel free of course to use the loudest reels you can get😁 Or do they get trained to it, get alarmed and feel encouraged to come and steal the fish? I don’t have any idea about this problem. Anyway, I don’t want to feel guilty😇

All the best for you!
 

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You are absolutely right to bring up landing fish quickly. The oftener the better!

But the part about drag versus click and pawl is an old canard, many times refuted, and %95 untrue. Used CORRECTLY there is no difference, and there a very strong arguement that, short of breaking the fish off a few seconds into hooking one, when correctly used a click and pawl reel will land them FASTER. This is because a mere CONSTANT drag is not always the fastest way to land a fish. Trust me, when most of us hook a fish we are striving to apply maximum required pressure at all times - it is just that we can control it better throughout! To suggest that we are somehow standing there idly enjoying the sound is, as I’m sure you know from experience, ridiculous.

Yes perhaps there are some ignorants that don’t know what they are trying to do, but just as many (no MORE) with drag reels not set correctly that think they don’t have to pay attention anymore. If only I had a dollar for every time I saw someone improperly playing a fish with a modern drag reel! All the worst examples I can think of are like THAT. The important things is to know and understand that your goal is to land and release the fish as quickly as possible. Drag reeels, for the vast majority of the cases, contribute nothing at all to that over c&p reels, but do concribute a lot IMHO to giving the fisherman a false sense of getting a pass on then issue, and so potentially making it worse!

Of COURSE drags are useful if you are going after larger fish - where the length of the fight is going to be longer and the strength ratio between your tippet strength (and sometimes even your physical strength) to the strength of the fish is more in the fish’s advantage. At least people who us c&p reels are keenly aware that it is their OWN responsibility. Drag reels are in no way any kind of solution to this problem in the vast majority of cases, and may actually contribute to the problem in some people’s hands/heads.

Loudness: It depends on the context, and I agree there are many cases where I appreciate quiet. Dry flies in particular. Its not that it bothers the fish one bit, but it seems more at odds with the spirt of things. A lot of times you are stripping out right after you have stealthily stalked a fish and while generally the fish cant hear it can be mentally traumatic. :( But for swinging there is no substitute for loudness!
 

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A side by side picure

Fwiw here is a side-by-side picture of them. Left to right: Marquis 7, Princess, Marquis 8/9, Wide Spool 3 3/8” Perfect. Here last two are IMO a bit on the heavy side for that rod, but the first two should be just right. For the record I’ve used the Marquis 7 for years and literally never had an issue with the line curling because of its so-called small radius, though I have had those issues a bit with the much smaller LRH lightweight - for me that is where the issue comes up. FWIW the line on the 7 there is for a 5wt switch rod and plenty of room for even that. The first two are equally nice prospects for your rod. The Princess is a tiny bit larger, while the Marquis 7 is palmable - a nice feature. As a general rule the Marquis reels can be picked up for less than the lightweights for similar condition.

Of course there are loads of other old, non-hardy ones that would be perfectly functional (like a medalist) you could pick up for less than $100 on eBay, even some for lesS than $50!
 

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