[Gillie]

I was out on the river today and had a problem with my cast that I haven't had before...... I'm looking for help.

I was fishing a T+T 1309 and I had it lined with a SciAnglers short head spey 8/9. Floating line all day. I should add that this is the first time I've put this line on it and I have never cast a SciAnglers line before.

Most of my fishing was in 60-65' of range and I really liked the way the line was loading the rod. Then I hit a wider stretch and started trying to trhow some running line behind it. That's when my problem began.

Once I started adding more than ~15' of running line the rear taper and the running line would crash to the water even though the loop was high and turning over nicely. The casts were very functional / fishable but looked horrible. What am I doing wrong ?

I've fished WC and Skagit heads and not had this problem. Any chance this is related to the line, or do I simply have a new hiccup in my cast that I have to fix.

Gillie

 

[Moose]

This may not be a popular answer, but in general I've found that I don't care for the SA lines with the exception of the XLT, which I love. I found the SA short head to act like a very clunky shooting head where the rear of the line falls to the water prematurely, like yours is doing (I've posted this before), and the Mid head to lack any kind of finesse whatsoever. I traded and/or gave em all away. Even tried a few single hand lines (nymph taper sucks) and come to the same conclusion.

To be fair, I have friends who seem to like them and cast ok (but not great :saevilw: ) with them, so it may be a matter of how power and technique are applied.

 

[sean]

Hmm....I feel the SA short head is the best short belly line out there and have not met anyone (except Moose ) who does not like them.

Have never had an issue with the ass end sinking cause the thing is shooting out there so quickly it does not have time to sink. So maybe it comes down to is stroke. Only saw Moose cast a little but from what I saw he is a very smooth, finesse caster.

Myself on the other hand am more of power caster and apply as much force as I can with my bottom hand. I like the SA short cause it shoots like a rocket and you can really hit the thing. A great tip line as well.

On the other side I am not a huge XLT fan, the XLT2s though that I have cast were sweet. Just give me a carron for the time being

-sean

 

[prairiespey]

Xlt2

Just curious if the XLT2 is out, if I remember correctly the 8/9 9/10 was,nt being changed but the lighter weights were- are these the XLT2 's you are refering too. I think 5 and 6 wt's were being tweaked at the last info release and there was talk of making some lines available to test- did this die out? Big fan of the XLT's already and would love to see some lighterweight optimized versions.

Will

 

[Tayside]

SA Short Head

The Sultan of Splice introduced me to the SA short head line earlier this year, I liked the line so much I have since aquired three more. I have not encountered the problems you have described but almost all of my time with these lines have been with a line cut for tips. A few months ago Way Yin answered another thread about these lines and said to experiment with the amount of overhang from the colour change. I think he suggested lengthning the overhang till the casts got squirrely then pull it back in a little. I tried this and found that I liked an over hang that varied from 3.5 to 5 feet and it did result in lengthning my cast.




Ian

 

[Gillie]

Tayside,

Are you saying 3 - 5 feet of runnig line outside the tip ? I'm used to only a few inches, maybe that's part of my problem.

Peter,

It definitely could be form. We had been fishing hard for 6 hours in 90 degree temps when I started to notice this problem. The reason it surprised me is that it is not a problem I've encountered in the past when I've been tired.

Gillie

 

[juro]

Without seeing it I would venture that it's caused by a combination of (a) hitting the power stroke too early and (b) finishing too low. There is often a bit of trunking (butt rising in front) a natural and common occurrence for many casters trying to increase power. This further rotates the power stroke backward i.e. early power and increases the likelihood of hitting the stroke too early and too hard. An open low finish to the cast would cause the back taper and running line to crash as mentioned.

BUT the root cause is (a) the early power hit which creates a high climbing loop and potentially a saggy slack line nearest the caster.

Recommendations:

1. Control flying butt (trunking) if present

Maintain the proper rod angle by keeping the bottom hand from rising up in front. It's common when people are going for distance.

2. Smooth acceleration

Peter Anderson says "lead before speed"; a cast must build speed from start to finish and stop in the proper position. Simon G. says in his epic book that a high climbing loop is caused by applying the power too early in the forward casting stroke instead of smoothly building up to it.

Get the rod bending by just bringing the arms forward first, then make your casting stroke. Don't pull hard with your bottom hand until the final power snap and stop it against something (your gut, ribcage, pectoral muscle, etc). If you can't get the rod bending early in the stroke with the arms, change your body position so your arms can drift back with the d-loop giving you the early tightening room. Remember, come forth straight and don't push/pull until the end.

Trick: Watch your fly or leader and try to slide it as you begin your stroke and speed it up into the cast. This trick has been very effective for my students as well as myself

3. Hard high stop

This will lessen the crash of the back taper but it alone will not solve the problem. A smoothly accelerated stroke needs a hard high stop to 'shear' the energy forward in a tight loop. There are many ways to acheive this but try stopping the butt against the body, or locking the bottom arm into the armpit/bicep area maintaining the proper launch angle.

Path of acceleration

In the end it's all how the power is applied and the path that the power passes thru along the way. I can show you some mnemonics I use to manage path of acceleration (which shapes loop) at the SR Clave. These also help tune the power application which I believe is the root cause, given I can not see the cast first hand and it's just an educated guess.

 

[Gillie]

Greta stuff Juro. I've had a number of casters tell me that my biggest problem is my forward stroke. I tend to apply power to early, and I get top hand dominant. In a weird way it is reassuring to hear that it is likely my same problem and that I haven't thrown a new monkey wrench in the works.

The way I tried to adjust for it on the river was a very high stop. It did help make the casts fishable and straighten out, but like you said it didn't solve the main problem of the ass end crashing down.

I've been working hard on the forward stroke and early in the day it was looking good. I guess being tired brings out those bad habits and muscle memory.

Looking forward to a few claves to get some hints.

Thanks
Gillie

 

[speyman]

Power Application

For most of the folks I guide and instruct I find that when they try to hit the gas things go to heck.

Here are some words to live by.....
When you want to increase your distance in the cast you must work to increase the precision of the cast, not the amount of power. Most folks can easily increase their casting distance by 30% by being more precise. If you are making mistakes, even small ones, in the mechanics of the cast you are throwing away energy and therfore distance. If you apply more power to flawed mechanics you will just have bigger flaws. The trick is to get rid of the little flaws by being more precise.

 

[highlander2]

Very well said speyman!!! The word "power" is something I refrain from saying now with students and friends. I find the words "line speed" to get a better result, but it is true that technique has to be sound even before that can be applied.

 

[Tayside]

Rear Taper

Gillie on the new SA lines the colour change does not indicate the junction of the belly and the running line, the colour change is on the back taper. When first using the line I tried it with a few inches of overhang and it worked pretty well but nothing great. After reading the post by Way Yin I experimented with the amount of overhang and found that once I extended it so that the thinner line was now outside the tip the rod and line combination worked very well. Cut back 15 feet for tips I used these lines for this past winter Steelhead season using RIO tips up to type 8 and 13 feet of T14 fishing distances from 30 to 120 feet.




Ian