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Coednakedspey
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168 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
1) The closer the tip of the rod is to the Point of the "V" in your "D" loop, the more you can maximize the power and load of your blank and dynamic of the D loop into the forward cast?

True, or False?

2) To form a powerful high D loop, you should always raise your rod during the back cast to form your D loop?

True, or False?

Feel free to elaborate if you feel there is a bit of both involved.

I feel there is some possibility, depending on answers, for answers to #1 and #2 to contradict each other for some people. But that's the beauty of spey casting: different strokes for different folks.
 

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627 Posts
D- loop

Scott

I am not so sure about #1 if I am understanding you correctly. My rod tip is far from the point of that V-loop if it were not there would be quite a bit of line stick involved. with the shorter heads there is less with a grandspey or xlt there is quite a bit of line that you must move and the closer that rod tip is to the loop the more chance of line stick. As for #2 yes, the rod tip must always rise. With the shorter heads it may be almost un-noticable but with the longer lines and good casters you will always see a slow lift followed by a almost flat plane of the rod to create the dynamic d-loop or " V " and then the tip will rise into the casting position. The general rule for me is the longer the line the higher the rod position should be.

Brian
 

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Coednakedspey
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168 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
highlander,
For #1, to elaborate so you undersatnd.

Imagine you are holding your rod in your "cauked and ready to fire position" IE at about 11 o'clock and point behind you.

Now I am looking at you from a side profile with ypu holding your rod in this position. Now I put a line coming out of your rod and I run that line back so and so feet in the air to a point (The point of your V loop) and then at the point the line goes towards where you normally set your anchor usually beside you. Now, picturing the "Point" of your D (V) loop, imagine you can take your finger and move that point up, so that the line between your rod tip and D loop is straight and parallel to the waters surface, and then I can also take that point and drop it down so it's nearer the water. The former being considered more dynamic and powerful because you have what would be coined a "climbing D loop" and the latter being considered less powerful because your D loop probably hasn't climbed that well but is more likely falling.

Regardless of whether you consider which a more powerful or dymanic D loop, do you think the rule applies that if your rod tip is closer to your point (IE there is less line between your point than from your point to your anchor there is more load and power utilized in your blank for your forward cast?). Do you see what I'm getting at here?
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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1,771 Posts
Scott K said:
1) The closer the tip of the rod is to the Point of the "V" in your "D" loop, the more you can maximize the power and load of your blank and dynamic of the D loop into the forward cast?

True, or False?
Although I think you make a good point, I am not sure I agree completely with tip-V proximity being a primary criteria for max loading of a rod. For instance, if you used a short head of 30 feet, the tip would be closer to the "V", but would it provide more load than a well formed d-loop made in an 85 foot line of equal grains? In an overhead cast the V is moving rapidly away from the tip and at it's furthest point the maximum load can be achieved. Understanding that a spey cast is very different, it's not so different that an extended belly V if well formed would provide less load because it's far away necessarily.

Much like the overhand cast, I find the best loading when the V is rolling backward away from the tip with good dynamic tension in a balanced manner in the d-loop just before I hit it with the forward stroke.


2) To form a powerful high D loop, you should always raise your rod during the back cast to form your D loop?

True, or False?

Feel free to elaborate if you feel there is a bit of both involved.

I feel there is some possibility, depending on answers, for answers to #1 and #2 to contradict each other for some people. But that's the beauty of spey casting: different strokes for different folks.

Like most folks I usually lift upward at the end of the d-loop sweep, which makes the d-loop easier to form and hold in check as things come 'round until it's time to make the forward stroke. This makes it easier to cast a longer line on a shorter spey rod for me as well, because I can drive the rod forward in a longer power stroke. The key is to hold the d-loop in dynamic tension until ready to make a cast, and raising the tip helps.

One can flatten the backcast out and drive a powerful cast with zero rise if desired.

Good discussion!
 

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chrome-magnon man
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5,375 Posts
here's my take on it

from the speypages newsletter articles:

D Loop Article

regarding #2, it is important to keep in mind that the rising rod tip is both a technically sound thing to do as well as (and I think this is more important) a really good teaching tool. Almost every new spey caster that I've taught starts off dropping their rod tip during D loop formation, laying too much line on the water and killing the cast, so teaching the rising rod tip deals with this common casting error (potential FFF Spey Instructor candidates tuck that one away for future use ;)). That said, Juro is 1000% correct about going straight back and then coming straight forward, something that often occurs when sidearm casting to beat a headwind, for example. Remember, "there are no absolutes in speycasting..." :)
 
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