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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been reading the book "Presentation" by Gary Borger and I realized that Spey casts generate a LOT of noise. The "white mouse" section of a double spey must sound like an F-16 fly-by to a fish. I know I scared a LOT of fish this summer trying to Spey cast to them. I'd throw a cast and I could see the swirls as the fish headed for cover. If nothing else throwing a heavy spey line on the relatively quiet waters around here must put fish down.

How do you quiet down a spey cast? Is it possible to fish quiet water with a spey rod without scaring the fish?

P.S. "Presentation" is a wonderful book.
 

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Indicators Anonymous
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846 Posts
if your casting is making noise, you have issues. in general, castng should never be noisy, no matter what cast you are throwing. there was this picture in last year's airflo catalog that showed tim rajeff with a monster white mouse and the photo was captioned "spey with spray." photos like that have led people to believe that the harder you rip the line from the water, which creates a very noisy cast, the farther you will be able to huck the line. ive never found that to be the truth.
 

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Junkyard Spey
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Hey Geoff...

I'm assuming you are talking about flowing water and not a "brookie pond" somewhere. Have you ever watched the Derek Brown's Spey Masterclass video or Simon single hand spey cast on the Rio video? That water is pretty smooth.
Wouldn't an overhead cast scare the fish just as much when you picked the line off the water? When spey casting on a river you are not usually making the noise with your line where you are fishing.
Maybe spey casting is not the proper method in certain waters. Use the method "that works for you". I've heard a couple of anglers complain that spey casting makes to much noise but I've never had a fish say one word about it:lildevl:
For me, on my river the benifits far outweigh the negatives.
 

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Waiting for the grab...
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I agree...

I started fishing for trout with a 6126 Sage last summer, both with a sink tip and a floater. I found that it did not affect the fish or fishing. The ability to cover so much water actually increased my hook ups!!! I also agree that if your casting is making the fish spook, maybe its has to do with your stroke. I am by now means an expert, but my 2 cents is that fishing for trout with the dbl hander is very effective. I live on and fish a river that is rarely 50' wide, that sometimes reminds me more of a spring creek than a river, and I rarely spook fish with my casting...if I do, it's b/c of my feeble attempts at wading quietly, not the casting, or the fish are very close, and the shadow of the 12'6" rod scares them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
MJC said:
Wouldn't an overhead cast scare the fish just as much when you picked the line off the water?
Not necessarily. A light spey line is a HEAVY single handed rod line.

A careful single spey will probably work, even on a "brookie pond." But many of the spey casts splash bunches of line on the water in front of you and then tear it off to complete the cast. The double spey, perry poke and snap-T all seem to involve a lot line splash.

One of the other issues is how long the rod is. Everything happens pretty far up in the air. This makes it harder to be sneaky around spooky fish.


No, I haven't seen the videos. I've exceeded my fishing "stuff" budget for this year. (And listening to my wife, probably next year's too. :tsk_tsk: )
 

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Junkyard Spey
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Hey Geoff...

Not necessarily. A light spey line is a HEAVY single handed rod line.
Again, maybe you are not using the right equipment. Spey casting is not about the tackle but a type of casting and can most effectively be done with a 3wt single hand rod in the right conditions. The part of the river I'm disturbing with my cast is not the part of the water I am fishing.

Like Speybastrd I use a lite spey rod for trout fishing all summer. It is a very effective tool for swinging soft hackles down smooth glides as well as streamy riffles.

If your wife says your "spey budget" is over extended maybe you have not been a good boy:tsk_tsk: :lildevl:

Merry Christmas my friend!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
MJC said:
Again, maybe you are not using the right equipment.
Quite possible. Just trying to spur a bit of discussion....

I still think there is some discussion of how much noise there is during a spey cast. Especially when trying to adapt spey techniques to quiet waters. Maybe I'm trying to spey cast where I really should be single handed casting....

If your wife says your "spey budget" is over extended maybe you have not been a good boy:tsk_tsk: :lildevl: [/QUOTE]

Probably. I try. ;)

MJC said:
Merry Christmas my friend!
You too!!!
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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I would add that if you haven't tried a Scandi style head you haven't yet seen how quiet a a spey cast can be (white mice notwithstanding). Goran Anderson's demonstrations where only the monofilament need touch the water lightly are revealing in the area of stealth while Spey fishing. This approach is widely practiced in atlantic salmon rivers in Scandinavia and I am sure many on this site could comment specifically on the technique.

The leader design as well as the head design contribute to this. The motions are abrupt and compact, underhand style. Very efficient and I would argue less disruptive than overhead casting with false casts and double hauls.

Spey lines are typically much thicker and can create more surface disturbance when stripping line. I would say that if that was an issue it's probably not a good application for that line in fishing terms.

I am a strict believer that full-bore Spey fishing is something to do with currents and swing presentations, without a lot of line stripping as would justify a basket, and ideally suited to rivers. However the fact that you are doing it in stillwaters is interesting and cool - keep it up and you'll be all set when that beat on a Scottish river opens up for you some year!
 

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cast,mend,stumble,swear..
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maybe....

i'm wrapped up in the sounds of the flowing river, et al. but i guess i've never noticed my spey.... excuse me.....two handed casting creating a lot of noise and disturbance when i'm casting. i suppose it is all relative, depending upon the river you're fishing (what Michigan river are you fishing?? have family in the Traverse City area, folks both grew up and fished that region, and have fished a few my self), but even w/ tips, etc. i haven't noticed and excessive noise that i'd consider disturbing fish... i think, done correctly, circle casts, singles, and double speys, and snake rolls, should be plenty quiet enough for all but the most parenoid of fish... 3 years into two-handed casting, i'm finding that as i've improved technique, placing the anchor, and "ripping" the line in formation of the D-loop is getting more and more "quiet." infact, when i shoot for that RIP of the line in forming the D-loop, i'm generally rewarding w/ a limp, weak a$$ cast. i.e. if you're getting a lot of noise and rip, you're probably doing something wrong, or at least not so right... just something to consider...
incidently, i'd consider my single hand rod spey casting that i do for trout around here to be quite quiet w/ the 6 wt sage SP that i use, and i'll garner creates less disturbance than my buddies 4 wt. on some of the smoothest slicks i fish..
all i'd say is, keep at it, it's a powerful and effective technique (that will likely precipitate me obtaining yet another two-hander!!!).
 

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Agree

with Feiger. Simon in the International Spey video talks about how the anchor lift should be quiet, if done properly.

I too use spey casts with 6 wt single hander for trout and find no problems with ecessive noise.

Feiger - hopefully Santa will be nice to you. Another rod in the quiver is always nice. In fact, getting a new rod dialed in with lines is one of the things I look forward to in this endeavor.
 

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As I've mentioned before, I occasionally fish on the River Wye on the Welsh border, which has some very flat water, and I do 'study to be quiet' there, to quote Isaak Walton's maxim. I would certainly avoid any two phase casts, as they necessarily make more disturbance than a simple cast. A single spey is better than a snake roll in that the splashdown is placed upstream of the caster, which means it's further from the fish. If there's enough downstream wind to make a single spey impossible, there's probably enough ripple on the water that the disturbance won't be so much of an issue.

But as Baldmountain suggests, I tend to use an overhead cast rather than a spey cast under these conditions. I don't believe it scares the fish, particularly if you dye the line a dark colour which helps reduce line flash. More importantly, an overhead cast allows you to use a lighter weight line for the same rod when using an overhead cast, because all the line comes into play in loading the rod.

As well as underlining, I would think about the profile of line; I like a line with a long and fine front taper - a Wulff TT works well for me. The difference in diameter between a line like this and a short fat line like a windcutter (let alone a Skagit line) must, in my view, add significantly to the stealthiness of your approach. I know Willie G isn't universally popular when he refers to casting skagit lines as being like chucking bricks, but in these sort of conditions, I think even their supporters might admit that he has a point!
 

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JD
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Proper applications

I know of some waters where even the water spray coming off a 2 wt line will spook the trout. To avoid spooking the fish under these circumstances requires any false casting to be done off to the side before the final presentation on a very long and fine leader. A 6 wt may as well be a bass bug rig for all the good it would do.

There are proper tools for all applications. And many of them over lap. But, IMHO, presenting a fly over smooth water & spooky fish is not one of Spey castings better attributes.
 
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