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chrome-magnon man
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Discussion Starter #1
APGAI and STANIC in the UK both have spey casting instructor certification, and the FFF is working on their version of it for North America. A couple of questions:

1. I know some of the board members are APGAI/STANIC certified. What are the qualifications for two-hander certification with these organizations?

2. Several of us here on the board teach spey casting, and many of us have taken casting instruction from various people. What qualifications should a "non-certified" casting instructor have?

3. The FFF certifies casting instructors at the basic and master levels, and I know that several board members are FFF certified. Which parts of the FFF certification skills should be retained in the spey component, and which skills should be added?
 

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Coednakedspey
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Dana, Have you tried contacting the sources with your information directly?

Ok Dana, if you really want to know there is a vigurous test you can perform to get the "S.C.O.T.T." Spey casting in struction certification. The first step is you give me all your spey rods. Next Step after that give me all your Spey reels, and then all your spey lines.

When you have completed this, you're as good as certified in my books!

Hope someone has some answers for you soon...

Scott

PS Oh yeah, you can get your masters in spey casting instruction if you show me all your secret Thompson River spots. LOL
 

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Now you're gonna be flooded with replies Dana :)

Seriouly though... the technical aspect of this topic is WAY beyond my ability so I simply dared not to respond. However I think I can post my opinions from a "user/customer/student" perspective if you don't mind some amateur/recreational inputs. :razz:

Casting instructor qualifications to me comes from the objectives of the body that governs it. Several obvious and plausible objectives come to mind when it comes to a professional body that promotes spey casting instructor qualifications:

- Uphold and preserve the ethics and traditions of the sport.
- Promote the sport to as wide and as diverse an audience as possible
- Seek to encourage improvements and breakthroughs on techniques, ethical standards and equipment
- Promote public support and understanding of the sport
- Help to make different aspect of the sport more available to a wider audience
- ... etc. etc.

Now that I'm in preaching mode here're a few areas to consider for casting instructor qualifications:

Technical - casting abilities and standards.
Knowledge - both historical and current knowledge of the sport and equipment.
Diversity - casting, entomology (and what insect does a flourescent pink popsicle resemble? :chuckle: ), fly tying, rod designs... etc.
Practice - teaching, guiding, volunteering and fisheries experience... etc.

At least these would be my criteria should I go shopping for professional spey casting instructions as I have no idea what the current FFF casting instructor qualifications are.

This is starting to remind me of work... I better stop now... :hehe:

Regards,
Andy
 

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Speyshop's Speybum
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462 Posts
COME ON GUYS

Dana,
I very rarely venture opions on subjects like this.
The formost problem we face is a qualifying defination of
a Speycast
In the past when this subject has came up it has been like tying to define the undefineable to the undefined.
Dana stay the course and do not become discouraged by the non attentiveness of the board.
Come on guys let us hear your opions.
After all who sport is it any way.
I am with you 100% on this one.

:tsk_tsk:
Speybum
 

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speycasting instructor

Dana,

And anyone else who might have their website address. I would like to know what APGAI's and STANIC's qualifications for instructor are. According to the FFF, they plan on having a certification program next year. Does anyone know if they are going to be similar?
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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In the words of the great philosopher Seinfeld, "certification... schmertification".

By that I mean it's most likely going to be a loooong time before any organization including the FFF gets their act together in this regard here in north america. Don't get me wrong, I am all for it but I think there are going to be those who talk the talk and those who walk the walk.

By and large the best instruction in North America will come from practitioners in the pacific northwest, simply because it's already ingrained in the culture there and there are people who live and breathe it - not just talk about it. In fact I would argue that the people in this Forum are as qualified as any to develop a certification criteria for North American instructors.

IMHO a consumer's view (for the near term) is a matter of (1) finding someone who can really cast for inspiration and more importantly (2) finding someone who can teach even better than they can cast. Spey casting is still very much a young, rapidly evolving new experience here in north america... ain't life grand!

.02
 

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With Tongue slightly in cheek I offer the following requirements for accreditation by US bodies as a spey casting instructor.
Must have Scots name and ancestry
Bonus points for having been born in the spey valley and fished the Spey R.
must be capable of drinking 26 ounces of sigle malt at a sittiing
anyone who asks for water or ice is automatically excluded indeed probably ostracised.
Anyone unable to make proper casts from both sides with a double taper line is flunked.
Must have a large capacity for bull S*IT :razz:
 

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Hi Juro:I assume you are referring to the malt not the bullroar.My personal preference is for Glen Livet but I have low tastes. As far as the other goes I like it carefully spread not shovelled.
 

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Juro et All: I spent a most enjoyable two weeks in the Highlands back in the 60`s with the Coservator for Forests from Edinburgh ,during which I learned more about malt whiskey than I did about forests.
The difference in favours is due to the water running through the peatmoss at the distillery site. The presence of deep peat and Caluna overlying a heavy clay soil causes the formation of an indurate pan limiting the downwards penetration of moisture. The runoff slides along this pan formation absorbing minerals and becoming flavoured by the particular combination of plant species growning on the site.
It is this particular essence of water which creates the unique flavours of the malt whiskey from each individual site.
During the visit I managed to hit as few golfballs,catch a few fish and kill a few birds.That is what I call a well rounded business trip.
 

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chrome-magnon man
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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
ever have one of those days...

..when something different happens than you originally intended...and it turns out to actually be better?

Bud, I love the "serious" response to the question! Guess I kinda had it coming after writing the "commonly asked questions about spey casting" thing on the speypages...:chuckle:

As someone recently informed me, Spey casting is about having a big belly and little stick...

How come I didn't come up with that one?:chuckle:
 

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Well, as they'd say on Monty P.: "And now for something completley

different."

How we got from Dana's question to single malts I don't know ... but I like the shift:devil:

Highland, Lowland, Isly? Best "tasteing parties" know to 'men' are where 'wine' is substituted for single malts. Everybody brings a bottle of single wrapped in a paper bag. Like the wine number each and use small liquire (sp?) glass' for the tasting. Take lots of notes after each, compare notes, and 'last one' to hit the floor is the winner and most knowledgable.
:eek:


Actually a h..l of a lot of fun .... just have a designated driver.
 

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Some of you guys have some serious issues. I couln't figure out what Single Malt scotch and flycasting instructors have in common and was beginning to think there were some serious drunks on this board. So.... I went out to the river yesterday with my new rod and a bottle of single malt.
I figured I'd experiment. A shot of scotch every ten minutes until I drained the bottle or drowned. I got to say I was pleasantly surprised. After half an hour I was casting pretty well, those off side snake rolls looked pretty good. After an hour, I started getting a little distance in my single speys. I decided that things were going soo well I'd go to a shot every 5 minutes.
Well, after an hour and a half, I think I was probably casting better than I ever had. And, after two hours I came to the conclusion that I was the best spey caster on the river, I had made a wise and intellegent purchase in that spey rod, and that I didn't need no instructor and could probably teach Mr. Grant a thing or two about casting. Many thanks.
 

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Hi Dana: I appologise for my decline from the sublime to the rediculous.
If one is truly serious about developing an spey instructor accreditation system they should carefully study the Canadian Professional Ski Instructors accreditation system.
The first step is to develop a distintive and recognized style and technique which covers all of the key elements.
The next step is to appoint a series of senior instructors who have demonstrated over many years competence in all of the key techniques and the ability to teach these techniques.
Each year a series of schools are held at which aspiring teachers are examined by the senior instructors on their grasp of the techniques and their ability to teach. Few asspirants succeed on their first school but may attend a second shool the following year.
All accredited teachers are required to reattend the accreditation school at regular intervals of I believe 5 years untill such time as they are accredited as senior instructors.
If I were to attempt to develop such a system I would define the technical elements as;
Classic single spey and double spey from both sides
Underhand spey
Line mending
Double backmend
Wind management
As senior instructors I would appoint the following
Mike Maxwell
Jim Vincent
Goran Anderson
Bill Lynch
I would hold accreditation schools at Spences bridge and Elmira Ontario
All candidates succesfully completing the schools would be appointed as qualified instrustors SI ( spey Instructor
Senior instructors would be designated as SSI
All qualified instructors in order to maintain their accreditation would be required to hold a minimum of 3 three day istructional courses per year.
 

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Hi Fred : Your drunken spey game is an excellent takeoff of the notorious golf game called ":Sniff and Snort" .The foursome puchases a bottle at the club bar before the game. The winner of each hole is allowed to take a snort while the loosers merely get a sniff. After one individual has wone several holes in a row he is usually so stunned he wins no more till he starts to sober up.
This game is usually played on sunday afternoons on the ladies nine.
 

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Hi Dana
We talked about this last Nov. when I was fortunate enough to spend a day with you Spey Casting. One of the subjects we touched on (and I think is worth mentioning here) is that the FFF certification program is not just about fishing or casting, It's more a teaching program, If you follow the program you will have a good understanding of the different styles and teaching techniques that have developed over the years. I think the FFF has done a great job with the certification progams (single hand) to date. As all programs I think there is room for improvement and changes, but this can't be done with out Fly Casting Instructors input. My hope is that people like yourself who have taken an interest in all STYLES of Spey Casting will take some time and contact the FFF and offer your services.

A couple quick questions for the members: how many styles would there be in Spey casting (EX. Traditional long line etc.)?
Do we have standard names for these styles?
And do you think with this type of program ,that each style would need to be achieved before becoming a Master?.

One last thought, we are all students, and to learn we need good instruction which you get from good teachers.

Rick Whorwood
 

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Licensed Curmudgeon
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Bud Smithers wrote:{Nice to see you Coot:)}
>If I were to attempt to develop such a system I >would define the technical elements as;
>Classic single spey and double spey from both sides
>Underhand spey
>Line mending
>Double backmend
>Wind management
The Snake Roll, Snap T, & Perry Poke would be logical additions to the list, & so should choosing the proper cast for the wind/ current direction.
____________
>As senior instructors I would appoint the following:
>Mike Maxwell
>Jim Vincent
>Goran Anderson
>Bill Lynch
I remember Mel Kreiger being on the FFF committee to study/form the curriculum, but forgot the other members :confused:
Would senior instructors have to be members of the Board of Governors?
_____________
>I would hold accreditation schools at Spences >bridge and Elmira Ontario "
There is a huge contingent of speycasters in Wis., Mich, & Illinois. A school near southern Lake Michigan would attract good numbers of applicants.
_________________
With Evelyn gone at the FFF office, who is the new contact for the Casting Instructor program?
Sorry for the ramble...
Best fishes,
 

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It's become obvious that we need to reserve some tasting booths for distilleries at upcoming claves (Sage, back of the line for a booth!)
 
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