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One of Canada’s most iconic rainforests is under threat as signs of logging have been discovered in the heart of the Upper Walbran Valley on Vancouver Island.Http://www.vancouverobserver.com/news/canada-s-grandest-old-growth-rainforest-risk-logging-survey-tape-discovered
Go ahead C. Clark and rip and ship BC to China, then smile and lie........lie and smile etc.
I have some experience in the Carmanah/Walbran area. As per the article: Of the 13,000 ha total area of the Walbran, 5500ha is already designated park, and unavailable for logging. ( tho clearly not enough for the Ancient Forest Alliance, which, it would seem, wants the whole drainage deemed unnavailable) The article mentions that the area is popular with recreationalists. I am unaware of any parties, other than forest companies, who have built roads making it possible for recreationalists, or anyone else, to come anywhere near these areas, in order to enjoy them. During my forestry career I became accutely aware of the need for a balanced system of managing the forest resource. Although I often viewed from the opposite side, I came to realize that "environmental interest groups" have played and do play a very important part in providing a public conscience to ensure that balance is not overlooked. Yes, old growth forests are amazing, but it's not a simple all or nothing decision. . Somehow/somewhere, some wheels need to be able to turn in order to support our economy, while at the same time maintaining a balance to support multiple interests. All or nothing views don't work for anyone and opinions to the contrary are not all lies. It's not as simple as it may seem from the outside.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
All over BC logging has increased significantly over the last 10 years. How about exporting value added products like cabinets etc, rather then rip and ship of raw products approached. Much better jobs and economy, NO ??
 

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Sure a timber industry is necessary but is it really ethical to cut any remaining old growth?
I don't think so.
It seems to me that when compromises are made conservation continually gets the short end of the stick.
 

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Yes, old growth forests are amazing, but it's not a simple all or nothing decision. . Somehow/somewhere, some wheels need to be able to turn in order to support our economy, while at the same time maintaining a balance to support multiple interests. All or nothing views don't work for anyone and opinions to the contrary are not all lies. It's not as simple as it may seem from the outside.
This. Well stated, thanks.
 

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agreed

the tract in question is at Carmanah Walbran

Whoa, whats that? You mean (not you SSpey) log it all so there is nothing? Stark difference between the 1950's and now. Gee whiz may as well get the last ten yards of old growth left too because that is balanced use of the land.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Natural resources exploitation industry always calls for balance. The simple math tells us if we continue to give up each time 50% of what is left, very soon nothing will be left.
 

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Not this. Log already ruined and cut lands. Old Growth (PNW Rainforest), all 5% of what is left should be left alone.
As posted link suggests no permits issued and some survey tape discovered. OMG the sky is falling. A little premature in ringing the alarm bells?

IMO the gentleman from Van Island appears to have more local experience and credibility than others combined. Maybe not.
 

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How about exporting value added products like cabinets etc, rather then rip and ship of raw products approached. Much better jobs and economy, NO ??
I don't disagree. It would be great if a company could manufacture products, providing a decent living wage here, that customers could afford to buy. That seems to be a major hurdle. We are a resource exportation based economy Canada-wide for that reason.
 

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I don't disagree. It would be great if a company could manufacture products, providing a decent living wage here, that customers could afford to buy. That seems to be a major hurdle. We are a resource exportation based economy Canada-wide for that reason.
Very few here will understand the truth in your statement herkileez. A natural resource export based economy is doomed to lose. Governments need money and if we don't give them what they think they deserve they will find it elsewhere. It's much easier to extract than to assist.
 

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As posted link suggests no permits issued and some survey tape discovered. OMG the sky is falling. A little premature in ringing the alarm bells?.
Very good point. The article goes from noting some falling boundary ribbons adjacent to the protected area to drawing a line around the entire sidehill, and salting the article with the word "clearcut". Granted, in the old days, before environmental watchdogs, the area would have been clearcut. I would be very surprised to see that today. IMO, it would be more likely "variable retention", whereby small patches would be taken, with 20-70% leave areas prescribed. It could also be "single-stem harvesting, where high-value single trees are plucked with a helicopter (ie Sikorsky S64), without even hitting the ground, and leaving no visible sign of logging. I don't begrudge "environmental interest" groups, as they have proven necessary in providing a conscience that I'm sure, in the old days, would be overlooked. The last pp of the article mentions the governments' "PR spin". Ironically, in my experience, if the government or industry spun the truth, with carefully massaged and implied 1/2 truths, 1/2 as much as some of the interest groups, they would never get out of jail. Again, not as simple as it first appears.



[/QUOTE]IMO the gentleman from Van Island appears to have more local experience and credibility than others combined. Maybe not[/QUOTE]

Thanks...Hopefully so.
 

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Yes, old growth forests are amazing, but it's not a simple all or nothing decision. . Somehow/somewhere, some wheels need to be able to turn in order to support our economy, while at the same time maintaining a balance to support multiple interests. All or nothing views don't work for anyone and opinions to the contrary are not all lies. It's not as simple as it may seem from the outside.
herkileez,

I worked in timber for many years in the NW states where I can testify it IS an "all or nothing" business. Please check out our coast range drainages here in Oregon to see what happens when no one is pushing back. Maybe things are working better in BC.
 

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All over BC logging has increased significantly over the last 10 years. How about exporting value added products like cabinets etc, rather then rip and ship of raw products approached. Much better jobs and economy, NO ??
This is very true. However, most of the increase is in the "beetle kill" areas of the interior. I'm in the industry, so have first hand knowledge. Coastal, or "green" timber harvesting has pretty much been the same over the last 10 years. Logging in BC has almost peaked, and we should see a gradual downturn as the "beetle kill" wood availability tapers off. Trucks making 13 hour rounder's for one load wont pay the bills for long.

What chaps my rear-end is the 8% of "green" timber being stuffed into containers heading to Asia. Like Sazan says, cant this been kept in-house? As well, shipping raw logs to US mills pisses me off to no end.

As for coastal old growth, we do need to leave selected areas alone but as we all know, the mighty $$$ is a tough competitor!
 

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The forests of that area of West Coast Vancouver Island was liquidated in the 70's and 80's. Steelhead Rivers like the Caycuse, Klanawa were all but wiped out. All that is left is a tiny buffer of Old growth skirting the West Coast trail.

The logging companies think they should have that to? Screw that!

If logging had been done responsibly, with consideration for future, including the long term careers of their own workers and descendants, perhaps they would already be sustaining themselves with 2nd and 3rd growth timber.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
If I remember correctly, the new BC logging practice/law has been introduced in 90's, to late for many areas.......
 

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I'm surprised that there was that much old growth still left in 1999. I remember visiting Vancouver Island in 1975, where it looked like the average size of a clear cut was "horizon to horizon." I agree with Herkileeze that balance is important. Unfortunately balance is impossible on VI, since so much has already been taken and so very little remains. It's impossible for a position advocating retention of all remaining old growth to be radical. Radical already happened by liquidating the preponderance of old growth in the first place.

I understand that much of the Canadian economy is resource extraction based. And resource extraction is not sustainable, differing here between old growth and tree farming. And extraction economies are largely the province of third world nations. Maybe not the best place for Canada to aim.
 

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Lets not confuse forestry (logging is such a dirty word), with resource extraction. Mining and oil/gas are extraction. Forestry, done correctly, is a renewable resource. YES, it actually is. Just look at Sweden and some of the other Scandinavian countries. They have there "chit" together. World leaders in sustainable forestry practices. Mind you, they are about 10 years ahead of us lowly North Americans and our archaic technology.....

Keep in mind as well that VI is not the only place in BC with intact old-growth forests. Much of the coastal mainland still has vast tracts. The difference being is, you really cant see it or access it easily (out of sight, out of mind). I know spots not to far from Vancouver with old growth. Like I said above though, not easy to get to.....
 
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