[Flyacker]

Was floating on the Deschutes last weekend and pulled into a great little spot to camp and fish. Later that evening, a guide drops off two anglers to fish the water directly above and in front of our camp. When he was driving off he stated " we will leave you alone in the morning."

The next morning, the same guide drops off two different guys in the dark in the same spot right above our camp and drives off. I asked the anglers what they were doing there and they had no idea what was going on. Not there issue, the guide just dropped them off to fish on there own while he took more guys down river.

Later that day we ran into the guide with no clients in his boat and I asked him "what happened to leaving us alone in the morning?" He simply scowled at me and roared up river.

My question is: is this acceptable behavior? Is it OK to fish though any camp that I like the look of the water? Guide opinions encouraged.

 

[papenfus]

Funny - same thing happened to me last week on the lower river. Dropped off very close to sunrise before I had a chance to finish my coffee. So much open water around there, but still had to do it in one of the two small spots fishable from our camp. BS if you ask me.

 

[GB Spey]

Funny - same thing happened to me last week on the lower river. Dropped off very close to sunrise before I had a chance to finish my coffee. So much open water around there, but still had to do it in one of the two small spots fishable from our camp. BS if you ask me.

Sorry Guys!!!vSure glad I don't live anywhere near there!! Up here there wou ld be some really hard words... if not somthin''else! Can't even imagine that! Tell them to really smarten up and respect your water!! You there first for a nice expeariance>>> That guide should be exposed on the NET!! JERK!!!
Hope things get better for you!! Cheers.

 

[matuka mike]

guide?? sounds like a taxi driver.

 

[Hayek]

I think it depends on the situation. People come up here (to the Skeena) on a particular river, in a particular season and camp out on the two best spots on the river. There are maybe 8 runs that really fish well in that stretch of river but there are 2-3 that will consistently produce. When people show up and camp on those spots for a week or more at a time, I see no problem getting there in the dark and fishing that run. I feel like it's cheap that they try to dominate that water - it's so much nicer when it's first come first serve and you'll probably get a chance to fish the water at some point during the day. At least that way if you really want a run, you can wake up at 2 am, put on a headlamp and beat everyone there. I feel like that gives you the right to fish it first (and no one can consistently have a life and get up at 2am for fishing, so necessarily the run will be shared). I don't think setting up a tent and sleeping in in till 7 or 8 am and expecting to have the best run on the river to yourself is reasonable.

This situation is different than what you were describing but I just wanted to point this out as maybe there is different etiquette in Canada? Most of my local angler friends would agree my opinion, and in my experience the campers were generally from south of the border, so maybe there's a disconnect there?

It's a weird thing when one angler's etiquette is different from another. I had a run-in with a gear fisherman this year when he pulled into the run I was fishing. In his opinion, there was plenty of room - in fact, he said we could fit four more boats in the run comfortably. In my opinion he had totally f*ed up my entire program. I was going to turn bright red watching him toss his gobs of roe in front of me, but he honestly did not think he'd done anything out of the ordinary. To a certain extent, I envy how laid back the gear guys are about this sort of thing. They'll stand shoulder to shoulder laughing and joking the whole time whereas we spot another spey angler looking a little too longingly at the run we're fishing and everyone's temperature starts to rise.

 

[akor87]

Etiquette and the D unfortunately seem to be an individual choice and not expected or a tradition anymore. Sorry to hear about your story.

 

[trico22]

Was floating on the Deschutes last weekend and pulled into a great little spot to camp and fish. Later that evening, a guide drops off two anglers to fish the water directly above and in front of our camp. When he was driving off he stated " we will leave you alone in the morning."

The next morning, the same guide drops off two different guys in the dark in the same spot right above our camp and drives off. I asked the anglers what they were doing there and they had no idea what was going on. Not there issue, the guide just dropped them off to fish on there own while he took more guys down river.

Later that day we ran into the guide with no clients in his boat and I asked him "what happened to leaving us alone in the morning?" He simply scowled at me and roared up river.

My question is: is this acceptable behavior? Is it OK to fish though any camp that I like the look of the water? Guide opinions encouraged.

Acceptable NO but I am not surprised.

 

[underachiever]

it's total bs. When he said "We'll leave you alone in the morning", I would have told him he'd have unhappy clients on his hands when he returned for them that evening, if he chose to leave them in the camp water. Did you happen to be camped at "green light"?

 

[klickrolf]

From my perspective if you're not currently fishing the run then it's not "your" water. Camping in a spot, on the bank, doesn't give you any priority except the fact that you can probably get there first. Guided or not, anyone who steps into a run first deserves the water.

 

[buff]

Good grief, Charlie Brown...

And here I am, thinking I am hard done by the pushy low-holin' rude dudes from that snooty fly club in Victoria! People don't seem to do rotational water sharing much anymore. Back home you would be in for a swim and then later at the pub you would be told that your glass for the daily pint was found broken in the dishwasher, and no replacement in sight...

 

[Spey Rookie]

The reason I would camp riverside near a good run is so that I have the early morning advantage. I will headlamp it far before a boat could arrive. After a morning fish its time to move on and find other water. However, if a 'man' tells you something and does the other then he's an asshole. The fish gods will strike him down!!!

 

[underachiever]

From my perspective if you're not currently fishing the run then it's not "your" water. Camping in a spot, on the bank, doesn't give you any priority except the fact that you can probably get there first. Guided or not, anyone who steps into a run first deserves the water.

There are some situations I'd agree with that perspective, this is not one. For the guys floating down they have access to the water in the vicinity of camp. These people float down setup camp, fish in the evening, fish in the morning and break camp. It's not a case of them camping for days on end. So that water is generally free during the day. Perhaps it's an unspoken code or just basic consideration for others, but 99% of the jet boaters seem to respect those folks and stay out of their camp water. It's a bush league move, the guide knew it or else he wouldn't have addressed the issue.

 

[Peteo]

I agree with Klickrolf, if you aren't currently in a run it's open water. This has been standard practice on the Deschutes for decades. I agree that it was poor form for that guide to do exactly what he said he wasn't going to do, but if it hadn't been him it might have been another.

 

[roseph]

Similar thing happened to me last fall. Friends dropped me off at a favourite run of mine in the dark. About 5 casts in, a guy (who I didn't see previously, but later realized he was in his truck on the road while I was starting to fish the run) walks down to me at the head of the run and says "where'd YOU come from?". He says he's been in his truck gearing up and where he came from it wasn't cool to do what I'd just done.

In retrospect I don't think I'd done anything wrong by my own personal standards, but I let him fish through first because I could tell he wasn't from BC and I didn't want to be the guy that ruined his experience.

But my opinion is that if you're not at least on the riverbank then it's a bit unreasonable to expect other anglers to look elsewhere (road, woods, etc) to make sure no ones got there ahead of them.

 

[Hardyreels]

There are all kinds of people and some who think of themselves as guides are not the most thoughtful kind.

Me, I'm not a long seasoned veteran fish guide type but I've been fishing for 52 years. During that length of time I've seen and met all kinds. I would never do what the guy did to you. Even if the law allowed for it which it doesn't here where I take people fishing. I do 2 things all the time; one, I make sure we are not near other fishermen; two, I seldom leave a person out of my sight. If I can't see the people who I have fishing there is something wrong or there could be and I would be responsible.

It makes no difference to me whether you are camped and not fishing or if you are in the river fishing, I won't come near you unless you're in trouble and signal me to shore. I think the guy driving the boat dropping of people at your campsite was just a rude and thoughtless type. He obviously didn't care about the quality of experience his clients would have and he certainly didn't give a hoot about you. Guide or not that tells you a lot about the character he lacks.

Ard

 

[fredaevans]

Respectful guides, Disrespectful Guides, Don't give a Sh!t Guides.

The more 'Guides' there on a river the greater the odds that you'll move from the left to the right in that stack. All are trying to 'make a buck' and far too many just don't care as long as the client(s) paid in cash.

One of the greatest 'displays' of 'enough is enough' was many years back (I, like most, was 90% a 'gear guy,' the fly rod was a secondary thought.) Anyway the fellow installed new water systems for home builders and would 'do lunch' at a close by spot. (So did I ... wink-wink.)

Boat comes down and anchors 20 feet below him and the 'Guide' has his two clients chucking roe. This displeased the fellow ..... 'Hold my rod, I'll be back in a minute.' Okie-Dokie?'

Comes back with one of those hand held propane torch bottles, lights off and walks into the river and melted the anchor rope in a couple of seconds. :smokin:

Took me more than a few seconds to react and laughed so hard my chest hurt.

 

[Flyacker]

There are all kinds of people and some who think of themselves as guides are not the most thoughtful kind.

Me, I'm not a long seasoned veteran fish guide type but I've been fishing for 52 years. During that length of time I've seen and met all kinds. I would never do what the guy did to you. Even if the law allowed for it which it doesn't here where I take people fishing. I do 2 things all the time; one, I make sure we are not near other fishermen; two, I seldom leave a person out of my sight. If I can't see the people who I have fishing there is something wrong or there could be and I would be responsible.

It makes no difference to me whether you are camped and not fishing or if you are in the river fishing, I won't come near you unless you're in trouble and signal me to shore. I think the guy driving the boat dropping of people at your campsite was just a rude and thoughtless type. He obviously didn't care about the quality of experience his clients would have and he certainly didn't give a hoot about you. Guide or not that tells you a lot about the character he lacks.

Ard

Well said Ard.
A guy that lies, ignores a lantern on in camp, a flashlight pointed at him and leaves his clients to get the wrath of a pissed off angler does not care about anyone's experience!
I'll fish with you anytime.

 

[CastAndStep]

I think it depends on the situation. People come up here (to the Skeena) on a particular river, in a particular season and camp out on the two best spots on the river. There are maybe 8 runs that really fish well in that stretch of river but there are 2-3 that will consistently produce. When people show up and camp on those spots for a week or more at a time, I see no problem getting there in the dark and fishing that run. I feel like it's cheap that they try to dominate that water - it's so much nicer when it's first come first serve and you'll probably get a chance to fish the water at some point during the day. At least that way if you really want a run, you can wake up at 2 am, put on a headlamp and beat everyone there. I feel like that gives you the right to fish it first (and no one can consistently have a life and get up at 2am for fishing, so necessarily the run will be shared). I don't think setting up a tent and sleeping in in till 7 or 8 am and expecting to have the best run on the river to yourself is reasonable.

This situation is different than what you were describing but I just wanted to point this out as maybe there is different etiquette in Canada? Most of my local angler friends would agree my opinion, and in my experience the campers were generally from south of the border, so maybe there's a disconnect there?

It's a weird thing when one angler's etiquette is different from another. I had a run-in with a gear fisherman this year when he pulled into the run I was fishing. In his opinion, there was plenty of room - in fact, he said we could fit four more boats in the run comfortably. In my opinion he had totally f*ed up my entire program. I was going to turn bright red watching him toss his gobs of roe in front of me, but he honestly did not think he'd done anything out of the ordinary. To a certain extent, I envy how laid back the gear guys are about this sort of thing. They'll stand shoulder to shoulder laughing and joking the whole time whereas we spot another spey angler looking a little too longingly at the run we're fishing and everyone's temperature starts to rise.

Sometimes I envy that sort of mentality too, but for me I have trouble getting too excited about an area unless I have it mostly to myself. I guess more so with a spey rod as the last part of your swing is when you hit a lot of fish, so having people wading below you never seems ideal.


Myself, because I like the solitude I am going to try and avoid campers ect, and would not fish right beside a group. But I think if your camping, you can't expect to own that section of river, especially if your on a really good run, or there are limited areas to fish. In my little length of steelhead river here, people sometimes camp and drive their trucks right to the spot they will fish. It's a very small run and there is only two small spots to fish. In that case I will fish it regardless. Never had any problems. I think most people on this run realize they can't own it. And I have the advantage of living here. That said when the group is friendly and respectful, I will often step out and let them have first runs through knowing that they don't live here like me, and this might be there only shot for the season.

 

[roballen]

if you aren't fishing the run isn't yours....

however a little communication goes a long ways

 

[Speysowa]

If you want this kind of behayior to stop. Put their names out there. Otherwise just live with it. Not all guides are bad eggs. I have friends who are guides and I know they don't do this kind of crap.

The bad eggs should have to live with their actions. Put their names out there.

If I was going to the Deschutes I would hire a guide and wouldn't want it to be this guide. So I would like to know who he is so I can NOT hire him. I'm sure those guys he left behind in the morning were very embarassed by what he did to them.