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Discussion Starter #1
Just picked up an INtermeditiate line for the right price ( the scots will know the price). Although its a line tha still sees a lot of use in the U.K. we never seem to see it in much use over here. I would be interested in your opinion as to any benefit it gives and under what conditions you woud use it. (Oh yeah Malcolm I dont know abbout going back to this sinking line stuff. I would'nt through my tips away quite yet :lildevl: ) Also any negatives re; intermediates Ie; lifting a long line etc.
Thanks Ramsay
 

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Disadvantages, I suppose rolling it to the top every cast, but you soon get in the habit.
Advantages, It casts better, the energy transfer is much ,much better. The lift is much more controlled and the presentation is 100% better, that great fat tip does not splash in.
It can fish deep and slower as the whole line goes subsurace and not just the last 15 ft.

Try it you'll like it.
 

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Another advantage - if you are fishing in fast streamy water and want to fish the fly slowly round below the surface, the line cuts down below the faster surface currents but usually fishes round on an even keel. Intermediates are marketed as allowing you to fish sub surface, obviously how deep depends on the current.

Overall, the line is less prone to eratic surface currents than a floater with a sinking tip.

Willie Gunn is right about the disadvantage of having to roll the line onto the top. In some instances in faster water this is not necessary but, as with all sunk line casting, it's better to roll before every cast just to get into a rhythm.

To be honest, the only advantage that I see in tips lines, is that you require less spools/reels.
 

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One disadvantage of intermediates (and full sinkers) is that you lose much of the ability to control the line - mending, lifting over midstream rocks etc.

I think that, in cold water, the speed at which your fly fishes can be almost as important as the depth. Using a downstream-angled cast helps, but obviously that also reduces the amount of water you cover. A sink tip line (providing it's not a short belly) still allows you to manage your line with a squarer cast.
 

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Junkyard Spey
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Hey Gardener

A sink tip line (providing it's not a short belly) still allows you to manage your line with a squarer cast.
Please explain this further. I can't for the life of me figure out what belly (head?) length has to do with it.
 

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It's much harder, if not impossible, to throw mends if you've got a lot of thin running line outside the rod tip. Not a problem if the belly or back taper is still in the rod rings.
 

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Gary W said:
To be honest, the only advantage that I see in tips lines, is that you require less spools/reels.
I was going to put that down as an dis advantage, instead of just carring a little plastic wallet with a few tips in it. You can have another sixteen footer with another lovely hardy sitting on the reel seat. Purrfect
 

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Junkyard Spey
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Hey Gardener...

It's much harder, if not impossible, to throw mends if you've got a lot of thin running line outside the rod tip. Not a problem if the belly or back taper is still in the rod rings.
Well, I completely disagree with your statement. It may be harder to flip the thin line upstream or down but using tensioning that short head can be mended quite nicely.

This is however an old argument and there is plenty of info for both sides buried in the archives. Per Stadigh hasn't been here for a while. Maybe this will entice him to drop in for a visit. I always greatly enjoyed Per's posts in regards to the long head, short head, mending debate. Take care, MJC
 

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Willie Gunn said:
I was going to put that down as an dis advantage, instead of just carring a little plastic wallet with a few tips in it. You can have another sixteen footer with another lovely hardy sitting on the reel seat. Purrfect
Yeah, I thought about putting that down as a disadvantage as well, but with my wife constantly asking me why I require so many reels, and me finding it more and more difficult to find a decent or witty retort, I had to see it as an advantage. Trying to budget my angling costs just now as my wife has just gave birth to our second son.

Still, with a new porch and loft conversion required I've still managed to sneak another Marquis No.2 purchase in, it's in the post as I write this. Just don't tell the wife!!!

Back to the original post - I know of one particular spate river where the intermediate seems to outfish floaters and sink tips every time, regardless of conditions. I wouldn't dream of trying to explain this or offer any science to back up this conclusion; it just does, and that's good enough for me.
 

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Congratulations on your additions to your familly. I hope your wife and latest addition are both well.

2 sons sounds expensive, I would start laying down some good Hardys for your sons future.

I learnt to fish with my fathers old lines, the floaters fished closer to an intermediate as they had so many cracks in them. I fished some grand water when he was eating lunch.
 

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Willie Gunn,

Thank you. I've already used the sons as an excuse not to sell any of my old tackle to make way for new stuff.

Cracks in line - I've just had to replace my old wet cel 1 with a new intermediate; it was starting to fish more like a wet cel 2 or 3!
 

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I'd just like to back up Gardener's comments regarding having less control using the inter or sinking line.

I use a tips line pretty much all the time and have the full length inters and sinkers in the bag as well and do use them when clearly the tips line are not doing the job as I would like.

But when it comes to controlling the travel of the line across the river the tips line being a floater does give you a distinct control advantage.

In a way its not really fair to compare the two, as although a full inter and tips inter may be targeted at the same market, the reality is that they perform significantly differently.

Have both in the bag, that's my advice.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks for the informed opinions. Looking forward to giving the intermediate a good workout.
Just a couple of more questions: I imagine that the interrmediate would be a good option in the wind. Have you found this to be the case or is there anything I should be aware of. Also would there be any benefit to chopping it to accomodate heavy tits (oops sorry that should read tips),. ie; let tips fish deeper, benefit of cutting surface currents etc..
Malcolm I assume that as a good Scotsman that you are still fishing those old cracked floaters of your dad's as intermediates. :D
 
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