[BCSteelHeader]

As a Spey newbie, (only 3 full days out with a spey rod so far), I'm able to make fishable casts, although they still need MUCH work, and I already have a lesson lined up this week.

One interesting thing I noticed, when on river right, my double speys are ok, but inconsistent at best. Sometimes I get a good load on the rod and it's ok, but a lot of the time the line is flopping out there without much energy.

On the flip side, when I do a snap T/Circle cast, cackhanded, surprisingly my casts are much more consistent, they go out straighter, my loop is tighter, and they feel like they go out with more energy. I often get that nice 'snap' of the line hitting the rod when all the running line is taken up from the cast.

I'm thinking the current is helping load the rod with the Circle cast during my sweep, which is partly helping the cast have more energy. However, on the double spey, I'm sweeping the rod in the same direction of the current, leading to less load and less efficient casts.

If my above assumption is correct, are there any general adjustments I should try with my casting stroke to better load the rod with the double spey? Any suggestions are appreciated.

On a sidenote, I'm curious if some type of Perry Poke might allow me to better go backward and forward in one line, to deliver a more cast that has more energy on my dominant (right) side.

(I should note that there was minimal wind, so I really could safely cast off both sides, but I know I'll need to get my double spey sorted out for the future)

In case it's relevant I'm using a skagit setup.

 

[sisyphusmpn]

Take a look at this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qOcqbUQWHo

 

[Cutthroat1954]

There is nothing like an experienced second set of eyes watching you cast. Good move to hire an instructor early in the game. Easy to make imperceptible errors, or have inconsistancies, etc., that you may not notice. Often those errors are glaring to a good instructor who will show you what you are doing, and how to correct the error(s).

 

[Cutthroat1954]

Hi Again: It is very relevant that you are using a Skagit setup. I just watched the video that was attached, and all instruction was directed at use of a mid to long belly line. Not really Skagit instruction. There are different styles of Skagit casting, all work for their proponents. If you want videos you can google Ed Ward and have a look at his style, or have a look at other styles shown by different folks on youtube.

 

[sisyphusmpn]

Hi Again: It is very relevant that you are using a Skagit setup. I just watched the video that was attached, and all instruction was directed at use of a mid to long belly line. Not really Skagit instruction. There are different styles of Skagit casting, all work for their proponents. If you want videos you can google Ed Ward and have a look at his style, or have a look at other styles shown by different folks on youtube.

Did we watch the same video? He doesn't really deal with the long belly setup until the very end. Everything he said has relevance to a proper double spey which, I thought, was one of the issues the OP was attempting to better understand. What exactly would one learn differently about double spey setup and common faults that pertain exclusively to a skagit line?

 

[bigbadbrent]

The crack handed snap T lines everything up a lot nicer (and typically follows the 180 degree rule better than a double Spey when you're getting started).
, and also forces you to pull the bottom hand due to your hands being crossed

Still my favorite cast on river right. Sets everything up beautifully for a nice swing

 

[Cutthroat1954]

Yes, we watched the same video. Nothing wrong or incorrect, but to be honest if demonstrating issues with Skagit lines to a "spey newbie" I would use a Skagit setup, not a traditional mid to long belly. Just my opinion. Have a look at this stuff from Peter Charles.

http://www.hooked4life.ca/h4l/video_gallery/spey_casting/spey_casting.html

 

[Rick J]

off shoulder casts (cack handed) are often easier for folks especially if they have started out as single hand casters as there are fewer bad habits, it is harder to use too much top hand and it is more confining - making you pretty much stay inside the box - Skagit really only needs a very short hand arm stroke - top hand rarely should get above the shoulder during any portion of the cast. I don't think it is the current so much as it is likely too much hand arm motion on the strong side - - try to keep your elbows tucked tight to your side throughout the cast - this might help.

You need a cast with both a downstream and upstream set on both river right and left to combat wind so the DS and off shoulder circle are two good ones for river right.

You asked about the perry poke and while a lot of folks blast it, this is a very versatile cast as there is a PP for each river /wind condition:

River right/downstream wind - use a pp over right shoulder dropping anchor just below you;

rr/upstream wind - use a pp with tip of rod over left shoulder (cack handed pp) and drop anchor on your upstream side;

river left/ds wind - rod tip over left shoulder - drop anchor just downstream (cack handed cast)

river left /us wind - standard or typical pp with tip over right shoulder and anchor on upstream side

 

[Bob Budesa]

BCsteelheader - I think you're experiencing the same thing I was just a wee bit ago, and that is.......on river right, the current is pulling the line away from you during a DS, and your anchor gets pulled more easily.

I solved that problem by this - after your initial layover movement, wait just a bit to allow the tip to sink, thereby giving it a better 'bite'. Then swing around and perform your forward cast. If I make this two-part cast too quickly, I'll pull my anchor every, well....almost, every time.

Hope this helps.

 

[fish0n4evr]

As a Spey newbie, (only 3 full days out with a spey rod so far), I'm able to make fishable casts, although they still need MUCH work, and I already have a lesson lined up this week.

One interesting thing I noticed, when on river right, my double speys are ok, but inconsistent at best. Sometimes I get a good load on the rod and it's ok, but a lot of the time the line is flopping out there without much energy.

On the flip side, when I do a snap T/Circle cast, cackhanded, surprisingly my casts are much more consistent, they go out straighter, my loop is tighter, and they feel like they go out with more energy. I often get that nice 'snap' of the line hitting the rod when all the running line is taken up from the cast.

I'm thinking the current is helping load the rod with the Circle cast during my sweep, which is partly helping the cast have more energy. However, on the double spey, I'm sweeping the rod in the same direction of the current, leading to less load and less efficient casts.

If my above assumption is correct, are there any general adjustments I should try with my casting stroke to better load the rod with the double spey? Any suggestions are appreciated.

On a sidenote, I'm curious if some type of Perry Poke might allow me to better go backward and forward in one line, to deliver a more cast that has more energy on my dominant (right) side.

(I should note that there was minimal wind, so I really could safely cast off both sides, but I know I'll need to get my double spey sorted out for the future)

In case it's relevant I'm using a skagit setup.

I suspect that your cack-handed casts are coming off better because and as already mentioned - your top arm is hindered a bit casting across the body and that you are compensating with your lower. Apply the power to the cast the same way with your lower hand to your ordinary Double Spey. I prefer to switch hands up bringing my strong hand to the bottom cork rather than casting across the body and notice basically the same thing: I apply more power with my lower (strong) hand.

 

[BCSteelHeader]

Thanks

Lots of great advice here. Thanks everyone. I definitely think that muscle memory on my dominant (right) side from several years with the single hander is playing a role. I have my first lesson lined up this week so hopefully I'll learn how to correct some of my bad habits

 

[brent_e]

are you lifting your anchor out of the water on the double? How close is the fly to your body when your anchor is set with the double? the scenario you're describing sounds like you're blowing the anchor by lifting it or overpowering the cast but how can anyone say without seeing!!!???

A couple other things to try, as you mentioned, is doing a poke with the double, but it's cumbersome (I find). it's easier if you do the initial lift behind your body between you and shore, then dump. Another option if you have an downstream wind (river right) and can't Circle c upstream is to Circle C downstream. I find that cast very powerful. Youtube it! After I started using that cast I rarely find the need to double spey!

definitely buy skagit master 1! haha!
best of luck.


Brent