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Excellent. My only reservation is this: that instructors will often say "my top hand doesn't move back and forth, only up and down," and then the video will show their top hand moving back and forth as well as up and down. Another version of this is when instructors say, "the rod maintains continuous tension and doesn't stop before the forward cast," and then the video shows the rod stopping--and in a certain sense losing tension--before the forward cast.

What BK means to say, I think, is that it's better if you use your top hand much less than you're inclined to do on the forward cast, let your body and your bottom hand do more of the work, and that both of these will be accomplished more easily if you keep your top hand elbow in tight. Experienced casters will unconsciously make that translation, I suspect, but rookie casters may well be scratching their heads. To be fair, of course, BK seems to talking to more experienced casters who may need extreme language to get their casts back on track--like setting their clocks ahead fifteen minutes.
 

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BULL DOG!!!!
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Excellent. My only reservation is this: that instructors will often say "my top hand doesn't move back and forth, only up and down," and then the video will show their top hand moving back and forth as well as up and down. Another version of this is when instructors say, "the rod maintains continuous tension and doesn't stop before the forward cast," and then the video shows the rod stopping--and in a certain sense losing tension--before the forward cast.

What BK means to say, I think, is that it's better if you use your top hand much less than you're inclined to do on the forward cast, let your body and your bottom hand do more of the work, and that both of these will be accomplished more easily if you keep your top hand elbow in tight. Experienced casters will unconsciously make that translation, I suspect, but rookie casters may well be scratching their heads. To be fair, of course, BK seems to talking to more experienced casters who may need extreme language to get their casts back on track--like setting their clocks ahead fifteen minutes.



Who’s instructing lol I made this video very much off the cuff for Tim and saw there was some good stuff worth sharing :nerd:
As far as what you see in video and what is really happening is very hard to perceive correctly as angles and parts of the cast change and every cast has some variables but the top hand not moving ....until.....the rod tip has stopped Into the backcast thus the line being already told what to do as in the most basic principle of line following rod tip once that stop has happened then you can drift any which way you want with both hands as the anchor and D loop are going to happen no matter what you do extra at that point. Some drift up and back some like to keep the top hand in front of their face to key firing position.
The oar lock is showing how going to the rod tip stop the top hand does not need to make the sweep but can be used as a pivot point.
Full disclosure at the very start of the video I tell Tim that take it for what it’s worth and that it’s been helpful for me 0:)
Again this video has nothing to do with the forward cast it’s about the specifics of making your D loop come back as smooth and slow and in alignment as possible.
Forward cast of course you use both hands lol but without a great lift and good smooth anchor you might be working way harder than needed to make that forward cast >:)
 

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Definitely good stuff worth sharing--didn't mean to suggest otherwise.
You confused me with the forward cast comment as this video has nothing to do with that part of the cast at all and wouldn’t want to confuse people that it was about the forward cast :wink2:
 

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You confused me with the forward cast comment as this video has nothing to do with that part of the cast at all and wouldn’t want to confuse people that it was about the forward cast :wink2:
Bruce, I see that now. At 1:50 you're just illustrating that the top hand shouldn't be going back against your shoulder on the back cast/rotation, and to show again what it shouldn't be doing, you move it forward only to get it back to the original position so you can show again, from the set position, what it shouldn't do--namely, move back. (If you can follow that!)

Anyway, my mistake. That'll teach you to take a chunk out of your time on the river to humbly offer some first-rate casting advice! ;)
 

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What Bruce also illustrated and stressed is that the bottom hand is responsible for powering the rod through the sweep and circle up with the top hand as only the pivot point which directs the path to the firing position. The beginning of the forward cast is the first point in the entire cast where the top hand begins to move ahead of the bottom hand in the down chopping movement for the cast. The body rotation compliments the positioning for the circling up and assists in bending the rod down to the bottom sections which are the stronger parts of the rod.
To use the top hand for powering the positioning of the sweep utilizes the tip sections of the rod in bending. This results in a less powerful forward cast. Hard to explain but well illustrated in the video using the oar lock. A great example of how positioning the hands and elbows at the lift and maintaining this hand positioning into the firing position results into a smooth powerful cast.
Perfect.....
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I feel ya bro! I know what you are saying and I have struggled with my learning curve along those lines you are talking about.

To put this into more context I am trying to break a bad habit with my left hand up casting, long lines in particular. To combat my unruly and uncoordinated left hand I had implemented too much bottom hand during the sweep and had just sent Bruce a behind the scenes video demonstrating this.

Bruces response was to kindly respond with this video. Thanks for your thoughtful comment Debarb!
 

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To put this into more context I am trying to break a bad habit with my left hand up casting, long lines in particular. To combat my unruly and uncoordinated left hand I had implemented too much bottom hand during the sweep and had just sent Bruce a behind the scenes video demonstrating this.
The switch between which hand is up and which down is just creating a mirror image of the one or other. Try creating this mirror image by changing your stance, (which foot forward), grip (thumb on top of grip for both hands to maintain rod alignment) and then maintain that new position. Start with a lift to keep both hands in the same position in respect to each other. I like to do a biceps curl to bring the hands up and elbows to 90 degrees. You can then maintain this position for the sweep by bringing the elbows and hands up maintaining their original relationship with each other while rotating your body as your elbows and hands elevate slowly in the circle up to the firing position. Continue while shifting weight from front foot to back and back to front for the forward cast.
I find that by forming the hand and elbow positioning at the lift and then maintaining this relative position for the sweep to the firing position minimizes the differences of changing upper and bottom hands for the cast. It also establishes the power from the bottom hand and guidance of the upper hand. The fewer different movements of hands and elbows during the cast from lift to forward cast helps to eliminate the problems you are noting. Establishing the hands and elbows as a single unit which is maintained from lift to forward cast allows the body with its core muscles to create the smoothness and power for the entire cast. It also illustrates that the upper hand doesn't move ahead of the bottom hand until the power stroke for the forward cast.
Study the oar lock video of Bruce which illustrates well what you are after in casting from either side.
Just a small recommendation which can be either taken, rejected or altered to your preferences. I've found that there are a s**t load of ways to move a rod around. But to consistently bend the stronger parts of the rod for a cast is a bit more exacting when trying for distance and accuracy.
 

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The switch between which hand is up and which down is just creating a mirror image of the one or other. Try creating this mirror image by changing your stance, (which foot forward), grip (thumb on top of grip for both hands to maintain rod alignment) and then maintain that new position. Start with a lift to keep both hands in the same position in respect to each other. I like to do a biceps curl to bring the hands up and elbows to 90 degrees. You can then maintain this position for the sweep by bringing the elbows and hands up maintaining their original relationship with each other while rotating your body as your elbows and hands elevate slowly in the circle up to the firing position. Continue while shifting weight from front foot to back and back to front for the forward cast.
I find that by forming the hand and elbow positioning at the lift and then maintaining this relative position for the sweep to the firing position minimizes the differences of changing upper and bottom hands for the cast. It also establishes the power from the bottom hand and guidance of the upper hand. The fewer different movements of hands and elbows during the cast from lift to forward cast helps to eliminate the problems you are noting. Establishing the hands and elbows as a single unit which is maintained from lift to forward cast allows the body with its core muscles to create the smoothness and power for the entire cast. It also illustrates that the upper hand doesn't move ahead of the bottom hand until the power stroke for the forward cast.
Study the oar lock video of Bruce which illustrates well what you are after in casting from either side.
Just a small recommendation which can be either taken, rejected or altered to your preferences. I've found that there are a s**t load of ways to move a rod around. But to consistently bend the stronger parts of the rod for a cast is a bit more exacting when trying for distance and accuracy.
This video as stated has nothing to do with the forward cast but what you mentioned about the forward cast about the top hand going ahead of the bottom hand goes against what your saying about using only the top part of the rod or the bottom by using top hand or bottom. The forward cast always should start with the bottom hand pulling down and back and then the top hand pushing forward to a stop. Chopping insinuates that there is no stop but the stop is key to making the line go out as on the stop you are releasing the energy stored in the rod to the line.
The video is showing how to gain time for the drift of which more important than the top hand going up is that the bottom hand is going out......out being key as if the bottom hand is not away from the body you are only using the top hand to make the forward cast. :nerd:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Errant cast!

This is the cast that kind of opened up the can of worms. But hey, James Chalmers thought it was pretty cool, although "bastardized" He told me not to over think it. He also liked my Perry Como cast. So there's that. :hihi: I'm presently bastardizing it with Bruce's help.
 

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Bruce, I field tested some of this yesterday and realized I was somewhat erratic with my right hand which got better as I pulled in my elbow and concentrated on restricting my right arm to vertical motion on the lift and more power from my left hand. What I considered small errors in technique turned out to be more important than I thought. Tighter loop, more power, better accuracy, and a more satisfying cast. I still got skunked but incremental improvements in my technique are nearly as satisfying as a bent rod and outgoing line. Thanks for the video.
 
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