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Hey thanks for that. The clear break down of the single Spey really helped clarify a few points. When I watch a great caster like Bruce launch a beauty, I often try to analyze what’s different about what they are doing vs what I’m doing. This clip really clarified the single most fundamental difference to me in a way no other footage has, until now. I’m so glad you shared this, and I’m really excited to go do some work on my casts now that it’s been confirmed to me what that missing link has been all along! Sure enough, as with so many things in life, it’s often those little things at the start that end up having tremendous ramifications along the way. Astounding really! I can’t thank you enough for helping to illuminate that tiny, but apparently critical, fundamental difference is between Bruce’s casts and mine. Looks like it IS the hat after all!
JB
 

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I’m not sure if I learn, or am more frustrated by up close videos like this, but it is impossible to escape the fact that you can’t see most of what is going on in a video framed this way. Since in the end it is what the line does and not fundamentally what the hands do that matters. If you can’t see the line, then at least the rod tip. But I recognize it is near impossible to capture in a video. There are also slightly different styles that will lead to excellent results with the line as well. Likewise, I’m sure I could attempt to produce the same configurations shown here and my casts would still suck by comparison. Without the timing and motion of the tip it’s pretty hard to see everything that is going on. I particularly dislike slowmo in this regard. I’ll play it back slow or stop it myself if needs be, but I personally learn as much from tempo as geometry. But the vid does help assure me I’m on the right track for future improvement! :)
 

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BULL DOG!!!!
Gaelforce
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I’m not sure if I learn, or am more frustrated by up close videos like this, but it is impossible to escape the fact that you can’t see most of what is going on in a video framed this way. Since in the end it is what the line does and not fundamentally what the hands do that matters. If you can’t see the line, then at least the rod tip. But I recognize it is near impossible to capture in a video. There are also slightly different styles that will lead to excellent results with the line as well. Likewise, I’m sure I could attempt to produce the same configurations shown here and my casts would still suck by comparison. Without the timing and motion of the tip it’s pretty hard to see everything that is going on. I particularly dislike slowmo in this regard. I’ll play it back slow or stop it myself if needs be, but I personally learn as much from tempo as geometry. But the vid does help assure me I’m on the right track for future improvement! :)
That’s like saying you get more from watching a bullet or arrow than the person making those fly :chuckle:

Watching what the hands are doing or not doing is far more important to me and have helped me more than any other types of videos.
With that being said we can see that I am lifting to my target aka incline lift
My top hand is still being a fulcrum of which my bottom hand is working against
You can clearly see the stop of the rod and unload of the line into the backcast (line follows rod tip) allowing me more than enough time to get my hands up and aligned waiting for the forward cast
You can also see the rod unloading on the forward cast if you watch Tim’s clip till the end.
This is the heaviest comp rod out there and very very difficult to bend but the results are quite remarkable in capable hands and I by no means am implying me as I am just coming to terms with “the Beast” from Gaelforce :wink2:
 

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You can see a good bit, for sure! It is likely due to the way my brain is wired but I have gotten all my intuitive, ah ha moments up close and personal. As an analytical person that is hard for me to say, but true. But a video I suppose can prepare you to get there. Whatever works I suppose, and provides the missing bit that helps a particular individual take the next step.
 

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BULL DOG!!!!
Gaelforce
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You can see a good bit, for sure! It is likely due to the way my brain is wired but I have gotten all my intuitive, ah ha moments up close and personal. As an analytical person that is hard for me to say, but true. But a video I suppose can prepare you to get there. Whatever works I suppose, and provides the missing bit that helps a particular individual take the next step.

Of course nothing can replace one on one :cool: Instruction or demos but when giving lessons I tell every student to watch my hands and not the line. The line can only tell you wether or not the hands were doing what they are supposed to or not:chuckle:
 

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I'm usually in the same boat and tell those watching the loop unroll to watch the hand/body movements. I'll try to perform three identical (or close to) casts... 1st watch the body and hands only, 2nd watch the rod and tip (where and when did the rod bend), 3rd watch the line paying attention to d-loop shape, how it exits the water, loop shape and turnover.

When I watch a caster either fishing or at a gathering, I will hone in on what their body/hands are doing first. Sometimes just the slightest change can make intermediate to advanced and many times than not the advanced casters will have similar casting strokes, style being second to fundamental.

Just some thoughts, none-the-less I always enjoy watching other casters... especially in slowmo!
 

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Well I think you guys make a great team !!
Between watching Bruce and listening to Tim analyzing commentary, that was one of the best instructional videos I have ever watched, seriously !!
I know not everyone learns the same way, but that video did "click" with me. I always watch the hands and body ... the comparative positioning of body parts mostly. Where the hands are in relation to specific body parts during stages of the cast, body position, etc.

I'm sure the hat helps, but it must not be that cold where you guys are since no mitts were worn during the video :hihi:
Also, Tim mentions that Bruce is using a 70ft shooting head. Is this the Clearwater Special being used or just Bruce bastardizing another Gaelforce 73ft Equalizer spey line ??


Mike
 

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BULL DOG!!!!
Gaelforce
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Well I think you guys make a great team !!
Between watching Bruce and listening to Tim analyzing commentary, that was one of the best instructional videos I have ever watched, seriously !!
I know not everyone learns the same way, but that video did "click" with me. I always watch the hands and body ... the comparative positioning of body parts mostly. Where the hands are in relation to specific body parts during stages of the cast, body position, etc.

I'm sure the hat helps, but it must not be that cold where you guys are since no mitts were worn during the video :hihi:
Also, Tim mentions that Bruce is using a 70ft shooting head. Is this the Clearwater Special being used or just Bruce bastardizing another Gaelforce 73ft Equalizer spey line ??


Mike

Lol Mike
It’s cold enough for the hat and suffer through the cold hands. Coffee with Irish cream helps too :wink2:
I am just getting back into comp casting so that’s the Gaelforce “beast” rod with a 72 foot comp head @ 34 grams.
I have supported Tim for a long time as it’s refreshing to see someone trying to spread truths in speycasting with no agenda and I am happy to help where I can.
 

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I agree 100%. I finally watched the video on the big screen last night with volume, along with Tim's videos of Bruce and Zack at the Clearwater clave, and picked up things that will really help me. Thanks to both Bruce and Tim for helping the rest of us out with our casting!


Well I think you guys make a great team !!
Between watching Bruce and listening to Tim analyzing commentary, that was one of the best instructional videos I have ever watched, seriously !!
I know not everyone learns the same way, but that video did "click" with me. I always watch the hands and body ... the comparative positioning of body parts mostly. Where the hands are in relation to specific body parts during stages of the cast, body position, etc.

I'm sure the hat helps, but it must not be that cold where you guys are since no mitts were worn during the video :hihi:
Also, Tim mentions that Bruce is using a 70ft shooting head. Is this the Clearwater Special being used or just Bruce bastardizing another Gaelforce 73ft Equalizer spey line ??


Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks

Thanks for watching. Botsorie makes some good points and I will keep working on videos of both types as lighting and videoing opportunities present themselves. I have a video called Longbelly 2.0 that has both types of videos that goes into great detail about the single spey covering each phase of the cast in detail except for where I've been sworn to secrecy,:hihi:

I think the great thing about this video of Bruce is it arms a caster to go practice which is where the real change happens. Thanks for the input!
 

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It is also clear that there is not one approach. I learned one way at the very start, then started using more of the Gawsworth approach with the lift, then dip, then back up the other hill. I practiced this way summers and my single-spey was fine, but then Zack pointed out that I was losing tension on my double-speys because I still had a slight dip without even thinking about it. I started "watching my mouse" to get rid of that and immediately improved that cast. Also see that Zack and Bruce do not do things exactly the same...

Hard to argue against the skill of Bruce, Zack, or Simon, they just all have slightly different approaches and among the best of the best. Guess we (I) just need to pick one and practice, practice, practice!
 

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It is also clear that there is not one approach. I learned one way at the very start, then started using more of the Gawsworth approach with the lift, then dip, then back up the other hill. I practiced this way summers and my single-spey was fine, but then Zack pointed out that I was losing tension on my double-speys because I still had a slight dip without even thinking about it. I started "watching my mouse" to get rid of that and immediately improved that cast. Also see that Zack and Bruce do not do things exactly the same...

Hard to argue against the skill of Bruce, Zack, or Simon, they just all have slightly different approaches and among the best of the best. Guess we (I) just need to pick one and practice, practice, practice!
The guy that introduced me to doing single speys on a short belly was a sincere “no dip” guy. He had learned to spey cast from Simon, but had come to this realization eventually on his own from long experience, and taught it this way to us newbs as one of the Golden Rules. But at some point when I pressed him about my difficulties with getting bigger angle changes, like 50 degrees and up, to work well he got a funny gleam in his eye and with a barely detectable smirk said in all seriousness “you need to add a little dip”. :chuckle:

And of course it worked.

If you have ever seen the seamless ease with which Simon can do a 90 degree single spey it is hard to argue the point. So as a matter of fishing options rather than sexiness or brute power it is good to keep an open mind.

I find that with short bellies I need to actually tune the power back more often than not, even in a headwind, but presenting the fly however I want to, whenever I want to - that is much more of a ongoing challenge.
 

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BULL DOG!!!!
Gaelforce
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The guy that introduced me to doing single speys on a short belly was a sincere “no dip” guy. He had learned to spey cast from Simon, but had come to this realization eventually on his own from long experience, and taught it this way to us newbs as one of the Golden Rules. But at some point when I pressed him about my difficulties with getting bigger angle changes, like 50 degrees and up, to work well he got a funny gleam in his eye and with a barely detectable smirk said in all seriousness “you probably need to add a little dip”. :chuckle:

If you have ever seen the seamless ease with which Simon can do a 90 degree single spey it is hard to argue the point. So as a matter of fishing options rather than sexiness or brute power it is good to keep an open mind.

Easier than dipping is just lifting up and towards where you want to cast too. Aka incline lift. Zero slack in your line :cool:
 

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sushiyummy & C&R
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Thanks for the video Tim. Nice casting Bruce. This breaks down the cast in great detail.

I have been looking at the video around 1:06. It appears to me the rod unloads in 2 distinct states, a short pause separating them. The butt unloads, then the top part of the rod unloads.

My experience is if I can make the stages more distinct from each other (ie. not smeared or blended), the greater the distance.

My experience with the foot forward (on the same side of the top hand) is to prevent over-rotation that leads to throwing the line past the inside rail.

Also, my experience is the flatter I can start the fwd cast, the tighter the loops, the lower and sharper the apex of the Dee loop stays during the unrolling stage.

Another thing I was keeping an eye out for was the lag time between the rod unloading and the fly line unrolling out. I find if I can delay it a tad bit, the line has more energy. My theory is this lag delays the rod tip from unloading early which keeps it longer in the game of putting work into moving the line.

I have problems with creep, which shows up when I can't feel the line after drifting. I have to tell myself to trust the process, but my hands can get distrustful at times. Any tips here?
 

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BULL DOG!!!!
Gaelforce
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Thanks for the video Tim. Nice casting Bruce. This breaks down the cast in great detail.

I have been looking at the video around 1:06. It appears to me the rod unloads in 2 distinct states, a short pause separating them. The butt unloads, then the top part of the rod unloads.

My experience is if I can make the stages more distinct from each other (ie. not smeared or blended), the greater the distance.

My experience with the foot forward (on the same side of the top hand) is to prevent over-rotation that leads to throwing the line past the inside rail.

Also, my experience is the flatter I can start the fwd cast, the tighter the loops, the lower and sharper the apex of the Dee loop stays during the unrolling stage.

Another thing I was keeping an eye out for was the lag time between the rod unloading and the fly line unrolling out. I find if I can delay it a tad bit, the line has more energy. My theory is this lag delays the rod tip from unloading early which keeps it longer in the game of putting work into moving the line.

I have problems with creep, which shows up when I can't feel the line after drifting. I have to tell myself to trust the process, but my hands can get distrustful at times. Any tips here?

Which hand is creeping?
You might be trying to hit the forward cast too hard perhaps. If the backcast part is done properly and you get your hands in the proper key position creep will be minimal
Don’t wait to feel the weight at that point it’s too late.
The best thing I ever did for my casting was simply paying attention to the basics and if those are done properly the cast happens quite intuitively.
 

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sushiyummy & C&R
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I have seen videos of, and have been trying out, starting the fwd cast before the anchor hits.

Will that help with feeling the load too late problem?
 

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BULL DOG!!!!
Gaelforce
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I have seen videos of, and have been trying out, starting the fwd cast before the anchor hits.

Will that help with feeling the load too late problem?
In teaching people on long lines I like to call it “anticipate the anchor”
 
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