Spey Pages banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All,

I'm new to the site ond only one year old in this spey game, but sure love it! Just when I thought I was done with my fly rod collection....

I will have the good fortune to fish the Kenai River for big Chinooks a few times this year and need a rod recommendation for a rod that will cast big flies, heavy sink tips and turn these huge fish.

The only caveat is that I will be building the rod myself so blanks must be available and I like the fast action rods.

I was thinking a 10150-4 Sage TCR or Z-axis with a Skagit line might be worth trying.

What do you folks think?

Thanks
 

·
Relapsed Speyaholic
Joined
·
5,533 Posts
Not my addiction but from some on here I have heard that a 15' rod really works against you for kings.

Based on your criteria (available blank, fast action) I would take a look at T&T. The 13' for 9 might do you fine and the 12' for 12 would certainly work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
465 Posts
If you're fishing from the bank and have one of those fish head downriver and they don't want to stop, you'd best have a boat because I don't think there's a fly rod made that would turn one -well, maybe the one in Houston BC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
SAGE TCR 10150-4 for Kings

The TCR 10150-4 would be my first choice for Kings on a large river. The rod is desighned around sinking lines and playing big fish. It's one of the most powerful 2-handed rods on the market and has a great fishability. :smokin:

The Z-Axis 10150-4 is a little less powerful but has suberb smoothness. This rod will also match the bill, but does not have the brute force that the TCR will give you.:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
A rod in the 13' range might be better, as it will give the fish less leverage, allowing you to work em in a little quicker (if you can... :D).

Where in the Yukon are you?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the replies!

I live in Whitehorse and am anxiously awaiting anything that resembles flowing water. It has been about -30 here for about 2 weeks and there is no relief in sight. Probably about 3 months until I can think about fishing. UGH!

I was leaning towards the TCR to start with. What about line selection for big bulky flies- should I get a Rio Skagit system?

Thanks again
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
I'm in the same boat - I live in Whitehorse too. Supposed to approach normal temps in the next few weeks. Hopefully spring isn't too far off...

I'd definitely go with a Skagit system. It will make tossing the big flies and heavy tips much easier.

P.S.: Is that Paul? Matt here...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,042 Posts
I have to disagree with long fast action rods as the best tool for fighting large chinook. Chinook fishing (fighting) is all about the physics of levers. A short lever is more efficient than a long lever. A fast action 15' rod seems like a powerful tool in your hand - but it also gives a strong fish leverage on you!

Big-game fisherman use 5' rods for marlin and tuna - not 10 or 15' ones! I have experience with some sturgeon fishing, where I used a 10' rod and a 6' rod - big fish positively kick your butt on the 10' rod - the 6' rods give you a chance.

My experience with double-handers and chinook are similar. The first time I went out I used my very powerful 16'7" Thompson Specialist as it seemed to make sense - a 25 lb fish beat me up. The next day I went out with my 13'8" Skagit Specialist and it was a different story. The Skagit is not only shorter - but it has quite a progressive action that bends deeply into a very powerful butt section. This in essence creates a short (4-5') lever with plenty of muscle - a much more efficient way to fight a powerful fish like a chinook.

If you feel you must use a 15+' rod I would suggest that you look for a progressive action rod that flexes deeply into a poweful butt - an old Sage 9160 comes to mind. I still think you'd be better served with a 12-13' rod that flexes into a powerful butt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I don't know all the rod lines too well, but it doesn't seem like there is much in short, heavy two handed rods. The only one I found was the T&T 12' 12weight, but on the RIO line recommendations, they only list a #12 surf line.

If they had any 13-14 foot #10 or #11's that I could use a Skagit line one I would consider it. Could I just try a heavy skagit head on the 12' #12 T&T?

Again, I am a bit limited by needing to build my own.

Thanks much
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,110 Posts
I agree with Kush on the shorter rod as a lever to quickly defeat these bright fish and release to let them continue on with their journey with minimal stress.

In the big picture bright Springers are getting to be a very rare and finite gamefish resource.

The 13'8" Skagit Specialist is perfect for defeating these fish, and the blanks can be gotten from CND.

The rod has a powerful heart and soul, and a joy to fish all day.

You might also consider one of the 13'0" 9/10 MKS blanks ... This rod was developed and field tested for the early Springer fishery of the lower Dean via guests and staff at Nakia Lodge helping in her development.

Powerful yet sweet, and has the guts to quickly turn these feisty fish into the gravel.

... As is the 13'6" 8/9 MKS.

There are certainly others, among them the 12X12 TNT and the 13' TCR ... If you like this action, these are great levering tools for this application, and both will sling a Skagit a freaking mile if you find their honey spot.

I guess my thinking is that the shorter levering tool is a good choice to consider for these critters ...

... For the great benefit of both the angler and the fish.

Just my thoughts.

Meiz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Lifting and long rods

I would like to react on Kush and Meiser and their statements on lifting power in combination with long rods. I don't fully agree with the suggestion that long rods don't lift that well as short rods and the compairing with the billfish rod.

With any length of rod you don't lift with the full lenght of the rod, but only with the stiffer middle and lower part of the rod. When you bend the rod and lets say the tip and 2nd section are olmost pointing straight out to the fish, your lifting lenght is the 3rd and butt section (on a 4-piece rod). So this 3rd and butt section become your 'working lifting lenghts'. Which is of course on a 15'rod longer than on a 12' rod. I don't think this difference in lenght will excause the angler. It will give the angler a longer lifting arm that works smoother than a short arm with the same amount of power.

The benifit of the longer rod in combination with sinking lines (picking deep sunken tip or lines in combination with heavy flies/tubes up by rolling them to the surface) has been a proven combination in Scotland and all over Scandinavia. whem you have to play around rocks and currents and not always can follow the fish easily you will like the extra rod lenght for stearing. Playing big fish on distance on a river is something different than playing a billfish out of a boat on a open ocean.

When you still want to go short and a bit lighter. Take the 9129-4 TCR for comfort and still a goo amoutn of lifting power in combination with a Skagit line.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for all the recommendations!

As I expected would happen, I'm a bit more confused with all of the possible combinations:) !

I agree Meiz, these are a precious resource and it's our job to ensure they are released unharmed after what is hopefully a short battle. I've never really been about the "fight" anyways. It's just good knowing that all factors came together to show that I'm just a bit smarter than something that has a brain smaller than a golf ball, and they can be on their way.

In that regard, I'm leaning towards the 12x12 T&T with a heavy skagit line- will this combo work? I'm sure even if the rod is capable, I won't be able to throw 120' with this combo, nor do I think it's necessary for what I'm trying to accomplish. Maybe I should just use my 10 or 12 weight single hander (will saying that get me kicked off this forum?:hihi: )

Whatever I do, I'm going to Meiserize the next 2 spey projects! I've ordered a piece of box elder burl dyed teal to match the CND 5/6/7 Black spey I just ordered. I haven't done this before, but I've got all the steps planned out in my head to make it work. I'll post pictures once it's done (hopefully this weekend if the wood arrives!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
640 Posts
While you are looking for a fish fighting tool, don't forget you want a casting tool too. Progressive rods Skagit cast better than rods that are stiffer. When you think about rod flex, think about the amount of real lever you get, not just length. The physics is clearly on the side of Kush and Meiz--your front hand is the fulcrum and the short end of the lever is in your belly. A powerful progressive rod bends some, so the fish has less real leverage.

I've been to workshops with saltwater big game anglers who demonstrate how much real pull force you exert at the fly with longer and shorter rods, and with good and bad technique. It's surprising how little you pull unless your technique is good. Maybe you should take a friend and a boga and compare long and short, but remember to pull at a shallow angle so the load is on the butt. Perpendicular rods don't exert much pull force, no matter how beefy and long they are.

Carl
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,829 Posts
Black Stim

I believe CTS in New Zeland does most of Bob Meiser's blanks now. Give Bob a phone call. He is a great resource and fun to work with and he has blanks to work with. Ph 541.770.9522. You can see some of his work on his website - sponsor link. http://www.meiserflyrods.com/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,623 Posts
Not sure if this makes sense but, I'll have a go at it. I have fished kings in the big A and was fortunate to have plenty of gravel bar space (Kuskokwim Trib) to allow me to back the fish (rather than use the reel) to a catch. I knew that there was an optimal amount of line out of the tip top to seal the deal. Mostly applied physics I guess. The lifting abilitly of my rod was translated to a more horizontal effort and a 14' 4" SH CND Specialist was the ticket. Would I have had the same degree of success had I been lifting vertically from a stationary position? NO

In my case,my ability to walk backwards and forwards, plus the extra rod length gave me a bit more time to respond to the sudden surges that the fish put on me and the tippet.

However, given an undetermined set of circumstances, I'd opt for a fearless rod designed for Skagit application

There's a time for every purpose

Dave G
 

·
Member FRSCA
Joined
·
2,264 Posts
I. The only one I found was the T&T 12' 12weight, but on the RIO line recommendations, they only list a #12 surf line.

Could I just try a heavy skagit head on the 12' #12 T&T?
The T&T 12X12 is pretty much the same as a T&T 1208 with a slightly different taper. Remember that rod is rated for overhead lines, where as the 1208 is rated for spey lines, hence the difference in line designations. Fights fish about the same. I had my ass handed to me by a fair sized cuda off shore with a 12X12 a month ago. Did land it, but not how I wanted to. There were times when the only straight spot in the rod was the reel seat, scary.

There is a valid point in the arguement about long rods being long levers for big fish. But you have to also consider the size of the water and size of the flies your fishing. If you can get the fly to fish without making huge casts, then no need for a huge rod. For myself, if I was going someplace like that I would look at a big rod, if you have the room, why not air them out?

LS2 1610 and a mid spey 9/10 would be my choice, leave the Marquis at home and take the Abel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
Paul, did you ever repair/rewrap your 9141? If so, that rod should do the job just fine for you (I would think anyway). I've got a few Skagit heads you can throw on it when things thaw out around here.

Matt
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top