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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I recently tried casting a Beulah Aero head 6/7 (44`) with my Loomis Pro4X 12`6 for 6/7. Seem I can't lay out he line properly. Is there a technique to properly cast this 44`line ? I mostly use single or double spey.
 

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Meiser, T&T, and OPST two handers; Scott, Orvis, & Winston SH. Danielsson and Hardy Reels
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Is this your first experience with a mid-belly head? If you are mostly a skagit caster, using sustained anchor casts, the biggest difference IMO is the rhythm of the cast. Sustained anchor casts are a bit jerky and the long sweep makes up for it. With the longer lines, comes a need for a smoother, more fluid action. Try to avoid introducing slack into any part of the cast. Usually, slowing down will help as long as you keep the cast moving.
 

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Have you put it the thin end towards the fly? ;)

You can begin casting quite a lot of line inside the rod and then slowly take more line out and eventually you have full head out. Then advance to one feet of overhang and when it goes good begin shooting line again short length first.Those are the steps most have had to do. I have to do them when I begin fishing season.

Esa
 

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First off what are you putting in the end of the line? I know, more super basic questions, but have to go their first. If it is not a long tapered mono leader as intended for that line then that may be the problem. Again, what fly are you using? Lines like this are not mean to turn over very heavy flies. Sorry to go there, but it is best get those questions out of the way.

Is the line itself not casting well or is it just that the leader isn’t turning over like you like? Those are two very different situations.

The aero heads are some of my favorite lines to cast. Let me assure you that if lined properly for a rod they virtually cast themselves so we should be able to figure this out. But yes, as mentioned above some experience will help as the longer you get the more precise you timing needs to be, and the more you mistakes will get magnified. What do you usually cast on that rod?

Still these lines are as easy casting as you get in their category. However, in spite of what the Beulah PR says are NOT “midbelly” lines by any notion related to how that term has been used up to now, and especially at the light end of the spectrum like the one you mention are really shortish SHORT belly lines! As a reality check 44/12.5 = 3.5! Normally we would consider STARTING to call is a SHORT belly a about 4x. Honestly barely past a long scandi lenght - even on a shortish rod like yours. So a big jump in skill should not be required. It should really be just the first baby step past casting a scandi, and comfortable, so I’m not sure the “length” here is the real issue.

I know some people with those rods but have never cast one. Where is it on the 6/7 spectrum? I know I personally like the 510 gr on my 7wt.

The first thing I do to see if a new line matches a rod well is to do a bunch of switch casts. You can tell everything you need to know from that, and it might eliminate some other casting issues from the mix.
 

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Do feel too bad, I had the same problem with a 510 Aerohead on my 13ft 7/8. I cast a A/F 480 scandi and a N/C FF70 8/9 without issue. For some reason I just couldn't make the Aerohead work on my rod. I can also use a Rio Long Sead Spey and it's at the limit but works well.

The only thing I could figure is that something about the taper/design just didn't like my casting style/set up. I put a couple hours into trying to make it go and was only successful about 10% of the time. I finally went back to what works for me.

Dan
 

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Do feel too bad, I had the same problem with a 510 Aerohead on my 13ft 7/8. I cast a A/F 480 scandi and a N/C FF70 8/9 without issue. For some reason I just couldn't make the Aerohead work on my rod. I can also use a Rio Long Sead Spey and it's at the limit but works well.

The only thing I could figure is that something about the taper/design just didn't like my casting style/set up. I put a couple hours into trying to make it go and was only successful about 10% of the time. I finally went back to what works for me.

Dan
So weird! :chuckle:

The 510 was one of those matches made in heaven for me on a 7wt 14’ Burkie. Even before I really “cast” it it was jumping of the tip like it was alive. Similar, if not quite so transcendental, for other line/rod pairings.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I was using a 10`floating poly leader plus 5`fluoro tippet. Mostly use flies in size 5 and smaller. Guess I need to practice my casting with this length of line. Mostly use under hand cast with a Scandi short 390 gr and have no problem. I'm a right hand caster. Maybe I should lift my right hand a little higher (over my head) ?
 

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I was using a 10`floating poly leader plus 5`fluoro tippet. Mostly use flies in size 5 and smaller. Guess I need to practice my casting with this length of line. Mostly use under hand cast with a Scandi short 390 gr and have no problem. I'm a right hand caster. Maybe I should lift my right hand a little higher (over my head) ?
Well it’s is not a make or break issue, but I would try something more like a 12’ tapered mono leader as the starting option. It is a truism that longer lines require longer strokes, so moving away from canonical underhand style. But in this case it is such a small step up in length. :Eyecrazy:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well it’s is not a make or break issue, but I would try something more like a 12’ tapered mono leader as the starting option. It is a truism that longer lines require longer strokes, so moving away from canonical underhand style. But in this case it is such a small step up in length. :Eyecrazy:
Thank you, I will try with a standard tapered leader
 

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So weird! :chuckle:

The 510 was one of those matches made in heaven for me on a 7wt 14’ Burkie. Even before I really “cast” it it was jumping of the tip like it was alive. Similar, if not quite so transcendental, for other line/rod pairings.
Maybe if I went up one size it may have worked. This G. Loomis Pro4X tends to like lines on the heavy side.

Dan
 

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Changing leaders may or may not help; but nobody has asked for more definition around what your casts are doing.

Are they not turning over? Are they not landing straight? Do you feel like you're having to power the forward cast way more than normal?

Which line have you been using before the Beulah Aero? Whats the comparative length between the two? I'm willing to bet its more a flaw in technique than it is in gear. A longer line will require different things than a shorter one. I also feel like shorter lines are much more forgiving to bad technique than longer ones.
 

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You definitely want a long mono tapered leader nail knotted to the AeroHead, and the thicker the butt section and initial downsteps are, the better. Also, remember to stop the forward cast as high as you can and hold very still after the stop while the line lays out. Only release your shooting line into the cast when you body and rod are at full stop and the forward loop is just starting to extend.

I like a slow lift and sweep/carry into a fast single spey (either side), and they handle snake-rolls very nicely too when you want to break up the monotony.

These lines are phenomenally great fun!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Changing leaders may or may not help; but nobody has asked for more definition around what your casts are doing.

Are they not turning over? Are they not landing straight? Do you feel like you're having to power the forward cast way more than normal?

Which line have you been using before the Beulah Aero? Whats the comparative length between the two? I'm willing to bet its more a flaw in technique than it is in gear. A longer line will require different things than a shorter one. I also feel like shorter lines are much more forgiving to bad technique than longer ones.
Using mostly Airflo scandi compact 390gr 31'. The Beulah 6/7 44'. Has I have mentioned I mostly use the underhand casting stroke. Guess I need more practice with the Beulah and a modification in my casting stoke.
 

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Using mostly Airflo scandi compact 390gr 31'. The Beulah 6/7 44'. Has I have mentioned I mostly use the underhand casting stroke. Guess I need more practice with the Beulah and a modification in my casting stoke.
Sometimes line profiles are not and more often weights are not what they supposed to be and based to Dans experience you should check its taper profile. You can compare its belly and tip thickness to your Airflo head if there is significant difference?

Weighing Spey head rear and front half is good measure. A head which rear has less than 60% of head mass is not easy to cast but "turns" bigger fly and polyleaders. A head which has more than 70% mass is very easy to Spey cast but struggle to straighten with big fly and when casting to head wind.

Esa
 

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This is very difficult to diagnose remotely, especially without more details. Video will be your best bet at debugging it.

I don't think there's anything wrong in the setup. These are fairly easy lines to cast, assuming what you want is to turnover the line with maybe a couple strips of running line, they work fine underhand or with a short stroke. You don't need excess hand elevation.

On this line, whatever problems you have, the poly leader will likely make them worse, so, yes, I'd also recommend switching to 12' tapered mono. But I doubt the leader is the root problem. I also wager the same issues are present when you cast the shorter head, they just aren't as pronounced in effect so you haven't noticed them.

Taking some totally wild guesses on the most likely set of problems that occur shifting shorter to longer head:

*) Alignment problems / violation of 180-degree rule with rod path out of the proper casting plane. Diagnostic : line trajectory not parallel to line drawn from D-loop to target. Leader may also be at angle to line trajectory.

*) Something wrong in lift and or sweep/backcast, stroke not long enough to fully straighten and place leader leading to bloody-L. Diagnostic: line trajectory is correct, but, leader and line tip seem to stick in water on forward stroke and leader flies out at an angle to the line trajectory.

*) Prematurely shortening/terminating the stroke, either due to creep or thrusting the top hand forward. Diagnostic: line and leader trajectory are correct, but cast crumples and does not properly turn over.


Bottom line, first be sure your anchors are correct and consistent. Then debug the forward cast.
 

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Using mostly Airflo scandi compact 390gr 31'. The Beulah 6/7 44'. Has I have mentioned I mostly use the underhand casting stroke. Guess I need more practice with the Beulah and a modification in my casting stoke.
Coincidentally, I made a very similar progression where I initially struggled with the 6/7 Aerohead on a 12'6" wt where I'd previously been using the 390gr Scandi compact. At this point I don't recall the specific issues or fix but I do know

1. The stroke was much longer than the tight, in the box stroke I used on the Scandi.
2. Way less forgiving to anchors that weren't good or timing being slightly off
3. Being patient and waiting on the forward stroke is helpful

As others indicated, video would be useful, to diagnose specifics.
 

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Hello.. I can only speak from my own experience,. When I come from shorter heads to longer, the timing is off. Wait longer for the Dloop to develop. And, you said it yourself, cast the Dloop higher in the air will certainly help to acheive the correct anchor. This is of less concern when you cast shorter heads, they are a bit more aggressive. So if you do not have the correct anchor to start with, the poor ( too much ) anchoring will be emphasized by using a polyleader which has more stick. Using benders trick is most useful, start short and cast, when the line flies, extend by a few feet and repeat. You may also use "drifting", when you stop the rod behind you and the Dloop forms, you follow the line without power just to extend the travel for the rod in the delivery ( forward cast ). The longer travel will give you opportunity to accelerate the rod better, and this gives the line a higher speed and better power to pull away a less good anchor ( too much.. ) So, better timing, mono leader, air the loop, drift the rod. What could go wrong?? Yours borano20
 

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"Wait longer for the D-loop to develop."

In my limited use of mid-belly lines (which I'm just getting into now, so take this with a grain of salt), this is what I found also. I equate longer bellied lines more like single hand casting in that you 1) have to have some room, and 2) you have to apply a little more energy in sending the line back into the D-loop before you bring it forward, and you can't pull the trigger too soon.

just my 2£ worth :wink2:
 
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