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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Worked out with the loaner Guideline rod and various heads... Casting is improving! However....

I noticed this near the end of the day, when I was just doing simple switch casts with a 35' intr. head, 15' sinking leader (with 2 -3 ft. tippet) and an unweighted fly. I was working on getting a good loop and shoot, and had out only about a rod's length of running line so I could enjoy the slap of line on rod. I would get the slap, but also noticed that the belly would land first, near the loop conncection at the running line, then the rest of the head would roll out and land. This last part happened very quickly, that is, the head was almost all the way unrolled when the belly would land. In most cases, the leader and fly turned over nicely. My loops seemed fairly tight, but certainly not laser-like.

My first thought was that my forward stop was not high enough, or hard enough, so I tried working on that, but as soon as I'd concentrate on that, my attention would wander and I'd miss the anchor or mis-time the forward cast... I should add that this after about two hours of steady casting a few head/leader change-ups. I think that if I was more fresh, I'd have less of a problem. In spite of this re-focused concentration, however, any of my "good" casts would end up the same: Belly landing slightly before the the rest of the head. Does anybody have any insight?

On a better note, I find I'm much more relaxed now when casting, and am using just a finger-tip grip to let the rod do the work. I had some great casts today, with about 25' of running line touching (not quite slapping) the rod and the whole head and fly turning over. I think that if the loops of running line had less contact with the water (see Grampa Spey's line holster posts), I'd get that slap.

It was a great, warm day to be out. It's nice to wet wade!

Tom
 

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I'm no casting expert but try bringing your backcast back a little more so you can stop your forward cast sooner. your top hand should be around your ear height and elbows close into your body.

goodluck,
cb
 

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Hi Tom,

a friend of mine told me that in a right and high performed frontstop your aren't able to see your rod tip at the corner of your hat;-). Maybe this can be a guideline how high your front stop should be done.
Also try to maintain a vertical stop position at the end of your cast.

Greets, Michael
 

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Thanks for the suggestion.

Michael. said:
Hi Tom,

a friend of mine told me that in a right and high performed frontstop your aren't able to see your rod tip at the corner of your hat;-). Maybe this can be a guideline how high your front stop should be done.
Also try to maintain a vertical stop position at the end of your cast.

Greets, Michael
Thanks, I tried this last night with the 3 basic Skagit casts with my 6126-3 and Rio Outbound WF 11F, a 10'* :roll: leader, a couple of feet of tippet and a size 4 slow sinking Muddler Minnow.

When I was successful the casts went out and up and came down the correct way. I was able to shoot 3 rod lengths of running/shooting line with Ed's and Mike's Skagit casts. With Scott's Double Spey Skagit, I was able to shoot 4-5 rod length's of running/shooting line.

With overhead/hand casts, my line over ran the leader and fly and collapsed:eek: . I was working on a fairly high/fast back stop and the combo of high stops just didn't work for me.

*My last Rio 15' steelhead leader is now a :roll: 10' leader. New ones are on order. When using a floating line and rods 12' or longer, the 15' leader and a couple of feet of tippet works best for me.
 

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From my limited experience..

I am a novice and don't possess anywhere near the knowledge of a lot these folks here, but I have been trying work out a flaw in my casting stroke that sounds similar to yours. I have noticed two things that cause my line belly to drop first and then unroll. One has been mentioned already with stopping the rod sooner and higher. The other flaw, that is a continual battle for me, is letting my top hand dominate on the forward stroke by "pushing" the rod and trying to do all the work.
 

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I think the problem is that you are not loading the rod. The best way to load the rod is to get more power into your back cast. Top hand, bottom hand it doesn't matter. Put more of a hard, strong stop into the D loop, let it form, DO NOT CREEP FORWARD until the D is formed, then all you need is a tap, a good stop on the forward cast and the line will zip out there!
 

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drbfish said:
then all you need is a tap, a good stop on the forward cast and the line will zip out there!
This might work on short bellied lines, Windcutters and the like BUT with a proper line you have to increase the length of the stroke. Taps and stops are no use then at all.

Watch Scott MacKenzie and Gordon Armstrong
 

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drbfish said:
On a side note, what is a proper line?
One made in the UK with a head length = to at least5 times the rod length.

I'm just surprised a 35' head length line casts at all, it must be like a rope.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Willie Gunn said:
One made in the UK with a head length = to at least5 times the rod length.

I'm just surprised a 35' head length line casts at all, it must be like a rope.
You'd be surprised! It casts quite well, using an under-handed style cast. I also use a poly-leader and some tippet for a total leader length of 15' or so.
 

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pcknshvl said:
You'd be surprised! It casts quite well, using an under-handed style cast.
Aye dammed by faint praise.

I would expect any line I use to cast extremely well other wise it would be confinred to tying up the peas
 

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I don't know about skagit cast, but with the underhand cast it is very important that only the leader and the fly is on the water when starting the forward stroke. In that way you get more line speed and should get rid of the "belly landing first" thing. High stop is fine, if there is not much power used. If you want to cast long distance and use a lot of power in the forward stroke, you only get a tailing loop with the early stop. It will need a longer stroke and lower stop.
 

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Willie Gunn said:
Go on diet. Aye dammed by faint praise.

Willie, The truth is we American's may never get it. I haven't had a laugh like this for a very long time...Thank you!

Oh, they do look nice, going from one tomato cage to the next on the pea row.
 

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Willie Gunn said:
Go on a diet. Aye dammed by faint praise.

Willie, The truth is we American's may never get it. I haven't had a laugh like this for a very long time...Thank you!

Oh, they do look nice, going from one tomato cage to the next on the pea row.
 

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In my case, my initial lift was too high.

And then a big ol' dip in the path of my rod tip while starting the back cast. Since the line follows the rod tip, the belly was splashing down way ahead of the leader.

So start low with the rod tip near the water. Initiate a moderate lift, keeping the rod parallel to the water. Then sweep alongside to a nice stop on the back cast. Drift your hands up, wait for the D-loop and fire.

I think about the rod tip continually moving from low to high. That up-down-up motion was the problem.
 

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this is an older thread so>

in spite of the fact i'm dog tired from work here tonight,i recieved an e-mail,and,i've been practising another tactic in the field during my `breaks':smokin: =,i used to prfer a high rod tip on the path back after the dangle but after studying the `ness style' and playing with that tactic of raising the line then ripping it around and firing it off while actually keeping the tip low through the various moves associated with that,,,that `style',,,well,,,i still land in the same spot,,keeping the rod tip tought with the line all the way thru the stroke,especially `the change' between the sweep and the fire(the most critical aspectIMHO no matter what),then anything is posssible,i still feel that,,,that connection there between line and rod is the most critical of any `style' of casting,,unless of course you're launching some sort of unruley `shooting head',then,`let er rip' or `you're on your own comes to mind':)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It's getting better....

Aaron was watching me, and told/showed me a couple of things:

One was that I was over-powering on the forward. I haven't quite figured out what's going on, but I think I'm not smoothly accelerating up to the stop.

The other was all about the lift, start low, and sweep up and back (think about the profile of the cables on a suspension bridge. Specifically, the pedestrian bridge over the Snoqualmie).

I notice that if I keep my eye on the anchor, and then the D-loop before casting, I have a nice tight loop, but less distance. If I look towards the target, with a peripheral glance at the loop, I get better distance, but not so pretty loops, and the belly landing first. Kinda like walking and chewing gum and rubbing your belly, etc.

Hell, if I was perfect right away, I'd be bored....

Tom
 
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