Spey Pages banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Guys,

Have a 13' Forecast spey rod kit coming from hookhack.com. Wondering if I could get some imput on some guide spacing?? And also how is everyone's winter steelheading going?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,027 Posts
Can't help you with the first, but the answer to the second ..

is "The Pits." Corp of Eng is still running large volumes of water out of Warm Springs dam above Medford. 3,000+, then add the feeder streams between there and Medford and you're at 4K plus.

Fly size is restricted to one the size of a dead bird filled with lead shot.:saevilw: Worse part is we have the 'final numbers' for summer runs (cut off date is Dec 31) at over 14,000 for the year. Over 6K of those since October first.

Fred
 

·
That Guy in PEI.....
Joined
·
1,945 Posts
3 or 4 piece? As for the fishing?? I usually catch 3 or 4 with an average weight of 15lbs from 10:30pm till 6:00am,,,all on 140' double speys!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It's a four piece blank...13'. So any help at all?? And that's the general impression I've gotten from around here in Ohio. We've had a lot of rain and a lot rivers are unfishable..my best this year is about a 6 to 7 lb buck....on a double too:chuckle:
 

·
Addicted and Avid
Joined
·
583 Posts
Guide spacing calculator

I've attached a .pdf in this post which is an example of a guide spacing calculator program developed by a well known split bamboo fly rod maker. If I can attach that compressed file folder in another post, I will. It should also read " 30.1" from base of handle to first stripper guide".
 

·
Addicted and Avid
Joined
·
583 Posts
Guide calculator program

Here is the program attached. Just double click on it, save it to your computer, and then click on the .exe file. This is where you can input total rod length, distance from handle base to first stripper guide and distance from tip to first guide. Once you make those determinations, the program will provide your guide spacing. I noticed the max number of guides it allows you to input is 13, so you're in luck there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Hooknsteel said:
Guys,

Have a 13' Forecast spey rod kit coming from hookhack.com. Wondering if I could get some imput on some guide spacing?? And also how is everyone's winter steelheading going?
In general, I never use the suggested guide spacings as is, because it limits you to exactly the number of guides you must use. It also means that it won't account for variations in the blanks as they are manufactured. So the first question should be "How many guides do I want to use". Then after that you can figure out what method you want to use.

Personally I would suggest doing a static guide placement, as it does the best job IMO of setting the guides.

Here is one method. Doing this one will work, but tends to put more guides towards the tip and less towards the butt. It's easy it's fast, and it works pretty good.

http://www.anglersworkshop.com/aw/a..._for_Static_Deflection_Guide_Spacing.doc.html

This is a better method in my opinion, but takes more time.

http://www.rodbuilding.org/library/staticguide.html

For the last one (13' Forecast) that I built, I used the Tom Kirkman method as it ended up giving a better distribution of guides along the blank.

-- Cheers
-- James

PS Salmon Chaser, you could measure out your rod as it's the exact same blank that guy is talking about....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
SpeyHermit said:
Here is the program attached. Just double click on it, save it to your computer, and then click on the .exe file. This is where you can input total rod length, distance from handle base to first stripper guide and distance from tip to first guide. Once you make those determinations, the program will provide your guide spacing. I noticed the max number of guides it allows you to input is 13, so you're in luck there.
I'm not trying to be critical, but I'd be a bit leery of using something like this, as it's doing a basic set of divisions to set your guide spacing. In general the taper and material of the blank will determine how close or far guides need to be, not a simple mathmatical series...

-- Cheers
-- James
 

·
Addicted and Avid
Joined
·
583 Posts
Guide Spacing

No need to apologize. There are so many different charts, tables and programs out there that it would make your head swim. I discovered the above recommended formula program when I was looking for suggestions for refinishing an old 2 handed bamboo spey that I acquired from the Maritimes. Many spacing recommendations only addressed one-handers up to 9'-10'. Anyway, when teaching myself bamboo restoration, I found Wayne Cattanach, master bamboo rod builder to make great sense. Here is another site which offers Wayne's and another's guide spacing practices:

http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/guideN.html

Wayne Cattanach Formula
Frank Stetzer, March 13, 2000
This page finds a spacing for the guides on your flyrod. It is based on Wayne Cattanach's original "Guide" program, which is a clever yet easy method to an attractive guide spacing. An alternative is the Dale Clemens formula.
The program requires four inputs, in a choice of American or metric units:

The number of guides. A rule of thumb is to round the length of the rod to whole feet (rounding up for six inches), then add one. This gives the number of snake and stripper guides, not counting the tiptop.
A guide to index from. For instance if you want guide number six placed just below the ferrule, you are indexing from guide six. (Guides are counted from the tip end down.)

Distance of index guide from tip. In inches or centimeters.
Amount to increase the spacing. Spacing between guides increases this much for each successive guide. Wayne suggests 9/16 of an inch (about 1.4cm). Intuitively, you may want a smaller increase for slower or parabolic rods or a larger increase for extra-fast rods, to put more guides where the rod is stressed.
After its done, you may want to adjust the position of the stripper guide a little to get it a comfortable distance from the grip. Its a balance between aesthetics and function, like everything else.
 

·
That Guy in PEI.....
Joined
·
1,945 Posts
James,, did that very thing first thing this morning;)
I agree,, guide spacing for cane trout rods are probably not a good idea:confused:
I like the spacing on the rod i got from you James,, thats why i sent the spacing to this lad. Through a PM this morning,, Hooknsteel mentions he hopes to use this rod for Skagit style casting. I am wondering if messing with the spacing could speed the action up a bit? Just a random thought.:eek:
By the way,, i havent forgot about the Perfect foot,,, just haven't gotten around to it,, i will however.
Salmon Chaser
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for all the help guys, it's good to have a wealth of help and knowledge in a pretty confusing subject. This is what I love in our sport...thanks again!!!!!!! I'll keep you all updated and let you know how it turns out.
 

·
Addicted and Avid
Joined
·
583 Posts
13' Guide Spacing

It's not clear to me that the spacing programs that I attached above are specific to bamboo only. However, below is a guide from a well-known company that sells many 2-handed modern graphite rod building kits:

*FLY GUIDE SPACING CHART


Rod Length and Guide Placement from the Tip Down to Center of Guide (in inches) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
6 1/2' 4 9 15 21 28 35.5 45
7' 4 9 14 19.5 25.5 32.5 40.5 50
7 1/3' 4.5 9.75 15.75 22.5 30 38.25 47.25 57
7 1/2' 4.5 9.5 15.75 22.5 30 38.5 48.5 59
7 3/4' 4.5 9.5 15.75 22.5 30 37.5 45.5 54.5 65.5
8' 4.5 9 15.25 21.75 29 37 45.75 55.25 65.5
8 1/2' 4 9 15 22 30 39 49 60 71
9' 4.5 9.5 15.25 21.75 29 36.5 44.75 54 64.5 76
9 1/2' 4.5 9 14.5 21 28.5 37 47 57 70 83
10' 4.5 9.75 15.75 22.75 30.75 39.25 48.25 57.5 67.75 78 89
Spey Blanks
11'6" 4.5 9.5 15.75 23.25 32 42.25 54 67.375 81 100.5
12'6" 5.25 11 19.25 27.5 38.5 50.5 64 77.5 94 113
13' 5.5 11.5 19.5 28.5 39.5 51.5 64.5 78.5 96.5 116.5
14' 6.75 15.125 24.625 36.75 49.5 64.5 81.75 97.5 113.375 133.125


**NOTES: On longer fly rods (8 1/2' and longer) 2 stripping guides are usually used, whereas only one stripping guide is usually used on shorter rods. The balance of the guides are running guides (snake guides or Pacific Bay single foot guides of the builder's choice).

Guides are usually tapered from the size opening of the stripping guide down to the size opening of the tip top. The choice of guide sizes is pretty much up to the desires of the rod builder. Many rod builders begin with a 10mm stripping guide on shorter rods and taper the running guides down to a 7mm tip top ending. Longer rods are tapered from 12mm stripping guides.

Guides have traditionally been placed on the side opposite the spine (spline). To locate the spine put the rod sections together. Place the tip area of the assembled blank in the cradle between the thumb and other fingers of the right hand. Tilt the blank to about a 45 degree angle. Place the left hand about mid way down the blank (just above the left hand should be a piece of masking tape to mark the spine when found). Push down slightly with the left hand and rotate the blank using the thumb and forefinger. Where the most resistance is felt is the spine. Mark the tape at that spot. IMPORTANT: DO NOT DISASSEMBLE THE BLANK UNTIL THE PIECES HAVE BEEN MARKED. IF THE BLANK IS DISASSEMBLED AND REASSEMBLED DEIFFERENTLY, THE LOCATION OF THE SPINE WILL CHANGE!
 

·
That Guy in PEI.....
Joined
·
1,945 Posts
Oops!!!

Sorry Greg. I just assumed since you said bamboo builder,,, my bad.
My rod is closer to the 12'6" spacing system,, though not quite.
As James mentioned earlier,,, use the static guide placement to determine what feels right.
Salmon Chaser
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
local shops are full service, where was H&H when you needed info? :)

We build quit a few of these rods thru our shop - here are the measurements that we use for the 13'0 blank: (they came directly from Batson/Rainshadow):

Tip down: 5", 11" , 19", 28", 39", 51", 64", 78", 96", 116".

-Kristin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I never asked H&H for the guide spacing...but as for local fly shops. I asked them if they could overnight my blank kit and the kit I bought for a friend of mine. I ordered it this thursday. UPS wanted $86!!!!!!!! Since it is the holiday, I could imagine. Well after a while I got a call back from Russ. He had great news. The guys at the shope worked some magic and I'll be recieving my kit tomorrow!!!!!!!!! for only $26...and THAT is where my local shop sits with me. They have my business for life. It's not often people bust there hump for just anybody, and the world would be a better place if we all did.
 

·
Addicted and Avid
Joined
·
583 Posts
Salmon Chaser said:
Sorry Greg. I just assumed since you said bamboo builder,,, my bad.
My rod is closer to the 12'6" spacing system,, though not quite.
As James mentioned earlier,,, use the static guide placement to determine what feels right.
Salmon Chaser
No problem. If you're into bamboo, Wayne Cattanach is a master with lots of good common sense. His knowledge has helped me greatly including making my bamboo varnish dipping tube set-up. Since I took up bamboo refinishing/rebuilding, I thought I'd share the resources which I amassed over the past years or so. And, as you can see, there are lots of spacing recommendations out there.

Quick question for you and Kingjamm: What is Static Guide placement?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
kristin said:
We build quit a few of these rods thru our shop - here are the measurements that we use for the 13'0 blank: (they came directly from Batson/Rainshadow):

Tip down: 5", 11" , 19", 28", 39", 51", 64", 78", 96", 116".

-Kristin
Hmmm... Looke erriely like the ones I used after static testing! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Salmon Chaser said:
James,, did that very thing first thing this morning;)
I agree,, guide spacing for cane trout rods are probably not a good idea:confused:
I like the spacing on the rod i got from you James,, thats why i sent the spacing to this lad. Through a PM this morning,, Hooknsteel mentions he hopes to use this rod for Skagit style casting. I am wondering if messing with the spacing could speed the action up a bit? Just a random thought.:eek:
By the way,, i havent forgot about the Perfect foot,,, just haven't gotten around to it,, i will however.
Salmon Chaser
Well, when you consider the grain weights of the Skagit line versus the grain weights of the savings from the guides, I'd think not. In general, the 13' is just not good for Skagit lines :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Skagit (pacific northwest) thoughts...

Guys,

On spey to Z Greg Pearson demonstrates some PNW (Skagit style) casting, and goes over the setup he uses. He uses a scott 1307 LS2. A 13 foot rod! And a 7 weight to boot. So I'm not going to argue it can't be done, since I've seen him do it. The kit I purchased is an 8/9 and 13feet. So...I'll set it up the best I can, and let you know. And also I'm checking into the guide spacing on that scott.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top