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Discussion Starter #1
Saturday afternoon at the Speyorama sounded like a whipping chamber.

The guys with the long rods and long body lines were snapping a lot of line behind them as they ended their back swing with their overhead casts and started the loop going forward.

Has anyone radared an 80 to 90' line as it starts to come out from the back cast with a 15' to 17' rod, snaps and then starts the forward loop? :Eyecrazy:
 

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Speed Of Line

When you hear the line crack it is traveling approx. 1130 feet per second or around 750 miles per hour. the "crack" is actually the line breaking the sound barrier. The above numbers will vary a bit with moisture and temp. The numbers quoted are in dry air {less that 50% humidity and 20 degrees centigrade.}
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Speed of line when you hear that crack

ssalmon123 said:
When you hear the line crack it is traveling approx. 1130 feet per second or around 750 miles per hour. the "crack" is actually the line breaking the sound barrier. The above numbers will vary a bit with moisture and temp. The numbers quoted are in dry air {less that 50% humidity and 20 degrees centigrade.}
Thanks! A long time ago I had heard this about one handed rods and in particuliar the double haul. No wonder we snap flies off our tippets if we time it wrong. :eek:

I have 20/20 vision without glasses, and those lines at the end of the backcasts when the forward casts were started just became a blur :Eyecrazy: until the loop became visible shortly before it passed in front of the casters.
 

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a/k/a loophitech
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wow, the sound barrier being broken with a spey rod? i would have guessed that maybe the forward stroke was a wee bit too early and snapping the line like a whip.

vinnie
 

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Line Speed

Getting off the subject here a bit. I'm not sure of the numbers off hand. But, last summer I whipped up a shooting head for my 14ft9wt for use overhead in the surf. Took the rig down to the beach in the middle of the day and casted a bit, head was working great. The weather was beautiful, decided to take my shirt off. Started getting a bit crazy with my casts (you know where this is going). The way the surf was taking my line it was setting me up for what I thought would be a really cool double spey kinda thing. So,,, I brought the rod tip up and over to my left just enough to get the fly to anchor where I thought it should be for this short head (remember I said I made it for overhead, I think it was 36ft or so), brought it back around, blew my anchor off, as it was coming forward following a way to powerful forward stroke, the tip of the line went across my kidneys at what felt like the speed of light, or atleast what felt like 2 million mph. Fortunatly I wasn't using a fly, the spot where the nail knot from the butt section to the head hit my skin bled a bit, and left a really thin, really sore welt from kidney to kidney then about a foot up above on my right side. The fact that I had been messing with it for a good 45min and had a bit of a burn going just added to the pain. Needless to say, I learned my lesson, and had a nice reminder for a week or so. I always wear a good heavy sweatshirt if I mess with a new idea like that now.
 

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Swinger of Flies
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I'd guess right there with Vinnie. That was my first thought as well. I was short in my timing the other day until I got some line out there. I cracked that poor leader pretty good. That old reminder of ....ahhh slow down.
 

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o_clarki_clarki said:
i would have guessed that maybe the forward stroke was a wee bit too early and snapping the line like a whip.

vinnie

Isn't that why a whip makes that noise? The tip is breaking the sound barrier?
 

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Hmm? Got me thinking there. Seems remarkable that this is possible, if it is... :confused: So I had a dig around and found this:
Scientific American Article .
Makes me wonder what sort of tension the leader is under to cause this and if its sufficient on its own to snap-off your fly. :whoa:
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
salmonick, thanks for the reference. Now, I know why I couldn't see the loops being formed 80'+ behind those powerful casters at Speyorama. This is from the article you linked us to:

News
May 28, 2002

The true Cause of Whip's Crack Uncovered

It takes a dexterous hand to coax a whip to crack. Now researchers report that they have discovered the mechanism responsible for the startling sound. It has long been thought that the crack results from the tip of the whip traveling fast enough to break the sound barrier and create a sonic boom. But the new findings suggest otherwise. Apparently, it's the loop in a whip that is the real noisemaker.

Though by no means a master whip cracker, Alain Goriely of the University of Arizona was nonetheless intrigued by the phenomenon and set out to study it at a theoretical level. Together with Tyler McMillen, a graduate student in applied mathematics, he modeled the behavior of the leather strips in a paper to be published in Physical Review Letters. Previous whip work (one of just three papers on the subject in the past century) had resulted in the puzzling observation that the sonic boom occurs when the tip of the whip is traveling at about twice the speed of sound. But if the tip were truly the cause of the crack, why wasn't the sound heard earlier, when the tip first reached the speed of sound? Goriely and McMillen's calculations have revealed the answer. "The crack of a whip comes from a loop traveling along the whip, gaining speed until it reaches the speed of sound and creates a sonic boom," Goriely says. He notes that even though some parts of the whip travel at greater speeds, "it is the loop itself that generates the sonic boom."

Although the whip's tip has lost the distinction of being the source of the menacing crack, it is still a force to be reckoned with: according to Goriely's calculations, "the tip can reach speeds more than 30 times the initial speed [of the whip]." --Sarah Graham. (end of article)

So the loop is going twice the speed of sound and the tip apparently is ripping through the air even faster.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
We made need Kevlar backs in our vests and helmets w/Skagit lines

Jamey McLeod said:
Getting off the subject here a bit. I'm not sure of the numbers off hand. But, last summer I whipped up a shooting head for my 14ft9wt for use overhead in the surf. Took the rig down to the beach in the middle of the day and casted a bit, head was working great. The weather was beautiful, decided to take my shirt off. Started getting a bit crazy with my casts (you know where this is going). The way the surf was taking my line it was setting me up for what I thought would be a really cool double spey kinda thing. So,,, I brought the rod tip up and over to my left just enough to get the fly to anchor where I thought it should be for this short head (remember I said I made it for overhead, I think it was 36ft or so), brought it back around, blew my anchor off, as it was coming forward following a way to powerful forward stroke, the tip of the line went across my kidneys at what felt like the speed of light, or atleast what felt like 2 million mph. Fortunatly I wasn't using a fly, the spot where the nail knot from the butt section to the head hit my skin bled a bit, and left a really thin, really sore welt from kidney to kidney then about a foot up above on my right side. The fact that I had been messing with it for a good 45min and had a bit of a burn going just added to the pain. Needless to say, I learned my lesson, and had a nice reminder for a week or so. I always wear a good heavy sweatshirt if I mess with a new idea like that now.
I have the feeling if we miss time our Skagit Casts with some premature movements, we may really whack our selves with the heavy tips and maybe flies. A T14 tip with a weighted 4/0 fly at the end of a 650 or 750 Skagit line will deliver one hell of a whack if we miss time it. I saw :eek: a few people while trying the Skagits at the Speyorama whacking themselves with the piece of yarn. :Eyecrazy:
 

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Heck back on the farm in Idaho, when we were too poor to get components to handload our varmit rounds, we would just tie on a 55 gr. spitzer to the tip of our spey line and go a huntin ground squirrels. A well executed snap-t had more velocity than a 22-250 or a 220 Swift and only dropped an inch and a half at 100 yds. It was pretty easy to get the big Leopold onto the rod using electrical tape but was a bit tough getting the blood stains off your line ;)

MJC, I know you'll vouch for me here.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
A lot of Mach I going on at Speyorama

pescaphile said:
And I thought that Hardy was calling their salmon lines "Mach 1" as just another marketing ploy!
There was a whole lot of Mach I going on at Speyorama on that Saturday afternoon. The long belly lines and a certain really long blue belly line were breaking a whole lot Mach I that afternoon. :Eyecrazy:

I wonder if having to cast from a pond helps to create this Mach I ing. :confused:
 

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I would think if you are creating a snapping sound during your cast then you are doing something wrong. I don't care if it is breaking the sound barrier I don't think it is a desirable sound while spey casting. From my perspective the quieter the cast the better. I even attempt to limit the whooshing sound of my casts and I still seem to be able to achieve some nice distances.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Poor boys varmit hunting with spey lines

sinktip said:
Heck back on the farm in Idaho, when we were too poor to get components to handload our varmit rounds, we would just tie on a 55 gr. spitzer to the tip of our spey line and go a huntin ground squirrels. A well executed snap-t had more velocity than a 22-250 or a 220 Swift and only dropped an inch and a half at 100 yds. It was pretty easy to get the big Leopold onto the rod using electrical tape but was a bit tough getting the blood stains off your line ;)

MJC, I know you'll vouch for me here.
About ten years ago in a Shad lineup on the American River, a big young lad was reaching way out with his Sage 9.5' Sage RPL. He had slipped his tippet throught a lead plastic worm sinker above his shad fly. I was thinking about doing the same during future trips. He was an excellent double haul caster, and his fly with the lead worm sinker was zooming out on every power double haul cast.

My mind changed when one his double haul power casts roared a little low overhead. We heard a sickening snap and a loud verbal 4 letter word come from the big lad.

The bullet shaped plastic worm lead weight had made his elegant 9.5' RPL into an ugly 8' something.

To make matters worse, after that disaaster, a good size shad hooked itself on the fly which was still out there. In a couple minutes everyone could see former tip of the RPL swimming around in the water. There was a lot of laughing from those of us in the lineup. :saevilw:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
KerryS said:
I would think if you are creating a snapping sound during your cast then you are doing something wrong. I don't care if it is breaking the sound barrier I don't think it is a desirable sound while spey casting. From my perspective the quieter the cast the better.
You are absolutely correct. After this thread dies off, I intend to post a separate thread on what is happening when we hear the crack on the back cast, and how can we avoid it.
 

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i would imagine if one is overhead casting that simply letting the line unfurl there will not be a crack, oops, sorry sonic boom. :chuckle:

vinnie
 
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