As someone who gets only limited opportunities to fish with a double-handed rod (at least its my week on The Dean) but wants to improve I turn to forums such as this and recommended DVDs. The Florida Keys are, unfortunately, not a hotbed of spey enthusiasts. Recently got "The Art of Speycasting" DVD and admired the different styles, philosophies, and obvious levels of expertice. While there are certain constants in the different styles it is obvious that different lines, belly or head lengths, rod actions and rod lengths are necessary to maximize these techniques. Should the motivated beginner try to acquire equipment to suit his style or try to perfect a style to suit his equipment? In addition without the luxury of being able to access a qualified instructor or demo equipment how should one determine what his style and or equipment should be? Thanks for any help. Hope this is not too obtuse. Anybody need to catch a tarpon?
another rookie question
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While not knowing what your style is I believe you could have a very versatile line in the WindCutter VersiTip to match your rod. A look at Simon's (Rio's) line picks to match your rod would be a good place to start. If you are new then use the "B" designation. This line should serve you well just about anywhere you could travel.
Once you get some mileage and come to learn more about what your style might be you can decide if you want to move on to something with a longer head length.
As to rod size and action, that is personal and depends on size, ability, and personality. It seems people that like fast single handers "usually" like faster two handers, while people liking a more relaxed action "usually" like a more traditional action in a two hander. That being said I believe a moderate action will be easier to learn to cast with. Once you get the hang of it if you want something faster a drop in line size to Simon';s "A" designation will speed the rod up some.
As in most things in life there are a great many opinions. The above is mine.
Have fun!
Once you get some mileage and come to learn more about what your style might be you can decide if you want to move on to something with a longer head length.
As to rod size and action, that is personal and depends on size, ability, and personality. It seems people that like fast single handers "usually" like faster two handers, while people liking a more relaxed action "usually" like a more traditional action in a two hander. That being said I believe a moderate action will be easier to learn to cast with. Once you get the hang of it if you want something faster a drop in line size to Simon';s "A" designation will speed the rod up some.
As in most things in life there are a great many opinions. The above is mine.
Have fun!
One idea
Obtain a SAGE 9140 IIIe or newer.
Take your Permit reel, slap a 9/10 Windcutter VersiTip on it and you cannot go wrong. (Buy a Widcutter upgrade in case your learning curve is quick and now, WHAM, you have a medium head line.)
From that set up, you will cover the Dean effectively AND it is a wonderful platform to move to a longer or shorter rod, with a longer or shorter head configuration.
Plus...if you break it on the Dean, you can ship it to Sage from Vancouver and have it back in time to join us on the Clearwater.
= )
My two cents submitted respectively.
Obtain a SAGE 9140 IIIe or newer.
Take your Permit reel, slap a 9/10 Windcutter VersiTip on it and you cannot go wrong. (Buy a Widcutter upgrade in case your learning curve is quick and now, WHAM, you have a medium head line.)
From that set up, you will cover the Dean effectively AND it is a wonderful platform to move to a longer or shorter rod, with a longer or shorter head configuration.
Plus...if you break it on the Dean, you can ship it to Sage from Vancouver and have it back in time to join us on the Clearwater.
= )
My two cents submitted respectively.
right on michael j
I think the previous post is dead nuts right on. When are you going to the Dean? If soon, I would practice, practice, practice so that you will be fishing the river and not learning how to cast on the Dean. I pretty much made that mistake about ten years ago when I started with the DH rod, esentially practice casting on the Clearwater instead of fishing it for the first 3-4 days. I'll be on the Dean from Sept. 2-9. 'Hoss
I think the previous post is dead nuts right on. When are you going to the Dean? If soon, I would practice, practice, practice so that you will be fishing the river and not learning how to cast on the Dean. I pretty much made that mistake about ten years ago when I started with the DH rod, esentially practice casting on the Clearwater instead of fishing it for the first 3-4 days. I'll be on the Dean from Sept. 2-9. 'Hoss
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My sympahties
Having obtained the Spey Bug while living in So. Ca. I can imagine what you must be going through trying to get into this living in the keys. :Eyecrazy:
I would suggest going along with the previous recommendations. Although I would modifly them a bit with the following.
I think the Skagit style of Spey casting has the shortest learning curve so I would suggest lining the Sage 9140-4 with the appropriate Skagit line, cheaters, and sink tips for a "B" caster. (You will need the sink tips) This is the shortest belly of any of the lines. By adding cheaters, or a windcutter upgrade, it can be made longer, if and when you want to do so. By going down one or more sizes on the wind cutter upgrade you can keep the additional grain weight from overloading the rod. Spey rods have a larger grain window than single hand rods and the 9140-4 is a very versitile rod so this approach will work.
I tend to favor larger reels for several reasons, so if you have a Tarpon size reel, then by all means use it.
Having obtained the Spey Bug while living in So. Ca. I can imagine what you must be going through trying to get into this living in the keys. :Eyecrazy:
I would suggest going along with the previous recommendations. Although I would modifly them a bit with the following.
I think the Skagit style of Spey casting has the shortest learning curve so I would suggest lining the Sage 9140-4 with the appropriate Skagit line, cheaters, and sink tips for a "B" caster. (You will need the sink tips) This is the shortest belly of any of the lines. By adding cheaters, or a windcutter upgrade, it can be made longer, if and when you want to do so. By going down one or more sizes on the wind cutter upgrade you can keep the additional grain weight from overloading the rod. Spey rods have a larger grain window than single hand rods and the 9140-4 is a very versitile rod so this approach will work.
I tend to favor larger reels for several reasons, so if you have a Tarpon size reel, then by all means use it.
Tryin' to git er done
Thanks guys for your responses. Another question if I may be so bold. I have an older Sage 9140-4, graphite III, a new Sage 8136 and a new Sage 9140 TCR as well as Windcutter Versi Tips and Skagit lines appropriate for the rods. I have fished my week on The Dean with the DH rods exclusively for the past 3 years and can do so with enough proficiency to catch a least my share of those marvelous fish. While the fish are great, it is the process that has completely captivated me and I am motivated to try to acquire the same level of expertise with a DH rod that I have with a single handed rod. There is no question that I can cast farther with the shorter heads but a GOOD cast with the regular Windcutter sure seems much more pleasant and satisfying. Is the Skagit system actually a long term answer to casting proficiency or merely a short term bandaid for one who has limited experience or someone unwilling to invest the time and effort necessary to acquire the skills necessary to efficiently utilize and enjoy the longer lines? Thanks in advance for putting up with someone who is more at home with a 21 foot push pole than a 14 foot fly rod. Wheelhoss, I sent you a PM but don't know if it got there as I am new to this process also.
Thanks guys for your responses. Another question if I may be so bold. I have an older Sage 9140-4, graphite III, a new Sage 8136 and a new Sage 9140 TCR as well as Windcutter Versi Tips and Skagit lines appropriate for the rods. I have fished my week on The Dean with the DH rods exclusively for the past 3 years and can do so with enough proficiency to catch a least my share of those marvelous fish. While the fish are great, it is the process that has completely captivated me and I am motivated to try to acquire the same level of expertise with a DH rod that I have with a single handed rod. There is no question that I can cast farther with the shorter heads but a GOOD cast with the regular Windcutter sure seems much more pleasant and satisfying. Is the Skagit system actually a long term answer to casting proficiency or merely a short term bandaid for one who has limited experience or someone unwilling to invest the time and effort necessary to acquire the skills necessary to efficiently utilize and enjoy the longer lines? Thanks in advance for putting up with someone who is more at home with a 21 foot push pole than a 14 foot fly rod. Wheelhoss, I sent you a PM but don't know if it got there as I am new to this process also.
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I don't believe the skagit casting practitioners use that method because they can't cast, but because for them it is a truly effective method for the conditions they fish in.
The skagit casting method as you already know is very effective. It is easier using short heads for someone with little skill to make it work in a short time. Having said that, I certainly don't find skagit casters to be unskilled casters. A lot of them can cast any length heads very well but have come to believe the skagit method to be the most effective "for them" If you'd have used a mid-head or long belly on your trips to the Dean would you have been as successful?
I'm sure you spent a good amount of money to go to the Dean so it would seem the short heads were the right choice since you caught fish.
If you think a WC is more pleasing to use by all means use it. Taking that farther, if you think a longer head would be more pleasing yet, by all means get one and learn to use it. A long/longer belly floater can be had for $70.00 shipped and cheaper if you watch the classifieds.
Fishing should be about one's pleasure. Only you can define that. As everyone is different in stature, ability, and personal whim we can not tell you what tackle is "right for you".
As a side note, there is demo tackle available from the Red Shed and some other spey tackle vendors advertising on Spey Pages. There are also some lines available from the Spey Pages staff for test drives.
The skagit casting method as you already know is very effective. It is easier using short heads for someone with little skill to make it work in a short time. Having said that, I certainly don't find skagit casters to be unskilled casters. A lot of them can cast any length heads very well but have come to believe the skagit method to be the most effective "for them" If you'd have used a mid-head or long belly on your trips to the Dean would you have been as successful?
I'm sure you spent a good amount of money to go to the Dean so it would seem the short heads were the right choice since you caught fish.
If you think a WC is more pleasing to use by all means use it. Taking that farther, if you think a longer head would be more pleasing yet, by all means get one and learn to use it. A long/longer belly floater can be had for $70.00 shipped and cheaper if you watch the classifieds.
Fishing should be about one's pleasure. Only you can define that. As everyone is different in stature, ability, and personal whim we can not tell you what tackle is "right for you".
As a side note, there is demo tackle available from the Red Shed and some other spey tackle vendors advertising on Spey Pages. There are also some lines available from the Spey Pages staff for test drives.
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Wait a minute
Skagit lines and the style of casting are just another tool. Specifically designed to cast really big flies and sink tips with ease. Another, less obvious, advantage of the extreme short belly line is a much more compact D-loop. When your back is right up against the brush, it makes a big difference. The trade off is that you have to shoot & strip line as opposed to simply pick up & cast.
I like to cast a long belly line too. And I get a lot of satisfaction just from the cast. It does take some time and perseverance to become efficient at it. Casting lessons can shorten the learning curve and eliminate a lot of the frustration that comes with DIY. But I also get a charge out of shooting a lot of line. Especially when the line tightens against the reel.
Like MJC said, fishing, especially fly fishing, should be about ones pleasure. Do whatever way you enjoy doing and don't worry about it.
Three DH rods,,,both WC & Skagit lines, been to the Dean three times,,,,in three years???? Novice,,,maybe. Rookie,,,not!saltsprey said:
Skagit lines and the style of casting are just another tool. Specifically designed to cast really big flies and sink tips with ease. Another, less obvious, advantage of the extreme short belly line is a much more compact D-loop. When your back is right up against the brush, it makes a big difference. The trade off is that you have to shoot & strip line as opposed to simply pick up & cast.
I like to cast a long belly line too. And I get a lot of satisfaction just from the cast. It does take some time and perseverance to become efficient at it. Casting lessons can shorten the learning curve and eliminate a lot of the frustration that comes with DIY. But I also get a charge out of shooting a lot of line. Especially when the line tightens against the reel.
Like MJC said, fishing, especially fly fishing, should be about ones pleasure. Do whatever way you enjoy doing and don't worry about it.
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