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Outerhebrides
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Discussion Starter #1
I have a new airflo impact running line on my reel. What is the favorite knot for tying a loop in this line? I tied a Kreh in it and the first two failed. The next two seemed fine, but I was not completely at peace with it. BTW, I have one of these on for about four months of practice casting, so that is several seasons of fishing. Today it broke without a knot or any warning, costing me a head. The local boys say "that never happens". Well, not never. The braided running lines do not shoot as well, but if distance is not a big issue, maybe they are a safer bet??
 

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That should never happen of course.
I am sure it’s not the fault of the Mono runningline. If you are already used to Mono RL, it’s handling and specific runningline management, I would stay with it.
As far as you are sure, it broke at the knot (knot breakage or slipping?): Mono RL is sensitive to studded soles, stones and rocks (as mentioned above: specific RL management is needed...)...
Mono RL’s has to be treated with great care and needs to be checked for any kind of damages regularly. Braided RL doesn’t make much difference.

If you are sure to do so, think about knots:
You could probably get multiple answers and suggestions to different knots to use for Mono RL.
But make sure, the knot you are using suits the Mono material ! Stiff material could tend to slip, soft material could tend to cut itself through; both, when tied with less care. OPST Lazar line is relatively soft compared to it‘s competitors.
Others may have different experiences, but for me the Perfection Loop is the best Allrounder knot for Mono shooting line, independent of stiff or soft Mono. Easy and simple, also at the riverside, with stiff fingers or in darkness...
It never failed for me on any kind of Mono RL, even not on the heaviest of bottom rocks:laugh:...
I can’t imagine for myself it could happen on a fish or while casting. Some of my Perfection Loops are unchanged up to several seasons on my most durable RL‘s, out of Ken Sawada Flat Beam series for the heaviest of fishing and casting. But never say never...
In most cases it’s the RL on the first meters that shows signs of abrasion and needs to be cutted back on the softer Mono RL‘s, such as Varivas, Lazar line, etc.
If this is detected, it has to be done at once while casting/fishing. Then, a durable, simple and well trained knot is needed.

The lost of a head while casting. You will probably remember it for all your further fishing and tackle handling. And better while casting, instead on a firmly hooked migrating fish...
 

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Outerhebrides
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Discussion Starter #5
Thank you for the excellent counsel. I imagine that my rl broke because of a nick or a tangle that put a crimp in the line. Interestingly, after tying many surgeon's knots a la Mr. Ward, I find that many of them in effect result in a loop that is out of axis with the standing line. When you crank on the knot, it is pretty hard to get absolutely equal pull on each leg of the knot, and if you don't, the knot "curves". The tighter you pull, the more this is likely to manifest itself. One would never notice this tendency in a limp material like dacron, but impact is quite stiff. I will inspect my rl more critically, and cut it back more often. As wetwader says, it could have been on a fish, which would have been expensive AND heartbreaking, not merely expensive. As a humorous aside, the whole experience proves that I am getting old. In my youth, I would have chucked my boots and waders and retrieved the head! Not these days.... Thank you again.
 

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I find that many of them in effect result in a loop that is out of axis with the standing line. When you crank on the knot, it is pretty hard to get absolutely equal pull on each leg of the knot, and if you don't, the knot "curves".
I don't use surgeons knots in leaders for that reason, but have used it tied in the way Mr Ward demonstrates above, in my running lines. YEs, there is a bit of a bend, but I think the mass/pull of the head is enough to straighten it. I don't notice any more twisting in my running line than I've had with any other type.

For what it's worth, I fish primarily 40lb catfish, which I just found out is no longer made.
 

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For what it's worth, I fish primarily 40lb catfish, which I just found out is no longer made.
Better hit ebay. It's too bad they didn't market that as running line. I think then it would have caught on.
 

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Outerhebrides
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Discussion Starter #10
Hi,
In case anyone is still interested and reading this...... I have - in my opinion - solved the issue of the loop created by the triple surgeon knot being "out of axis" with the standing line. If one anchors the loop (I did it by running a screwdriver through the loop and sitting on it, but I am sure there are more elegant ways of accomplishing this....), then one has both hands free. Using gloves if you are so inclined, then tighten down the knot pulling on both legs of the knot - one with each hand. By doing this, one can make sure that the pressure on each leg is equal. When one pulls on both of them together, a la Ed Ward - deserving legend he is - it is sort of the luck of the draw to get equal pressure on both. I tied three or four of them and they were very neat, tight, and straight. Try it. I know that with some knots it would be heresy to pull on both legs, but the structure of the surgeon is such that both legs are doing the same thing.
The perfection loop is also very tidy, and seems very friendly to the impact rl. I think both would be fine.
 

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I like a Figure 8 Loop. It’s simple and keeps the loop inline with the running line. Climbers count on it to support their weight so I don’t imagine fish would present a problem.


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Quite simply,I seal every knot that I form in Nylon running lines with Zap a Gap.I use a single turn surgeons and a tiny drop of glue on the knot itself.This allows me to trim tag ends flush and keep things as neat and tidy as possible.
Now before any of you question this,I use some pretty severe heavy heads(up to the 850 DWE) and big brass and copper bodied tube flee's, certainly at least the eaqual if not heavier than any of your steelhead flee's and cast overhead some impressive distances, as a test of Gear in Salmon fishing, this is about as severe as it can get and a very heavy duty form of fishing indeed.
I've never had a knot or loop fail on me yet, to the extent that all my knots from my backing to the tapered or poly leader are Zap a Gap sealed on all of my more general outfits(I've got a few!).By and large I use Amnesia in 30lb and 40lb(that's for the very heavy heads) and I've never had an issue with running line or knots/loops etc..
My std. outfits all use coated running line such as Airflo's ridged and they're not a problem.
I also do all my knots at home and tighten down slow n steady using a 3rd hand principle-rather like Mr.Ward does, a few more seconds spent on each knot returns greater dividend!.
As ever when one is preparing ones gear a little time and effort in the chair of an evening isn't a bad thing.Practise knots with old bits of nylon, practise how you tie them(very very important that bit, there's knot's and correctly tied knot's),get used to what you do and importantly when you are comfy with the results, don't vary it.Mucking about from a settled approach will lead to pilot error, that in turn will unsettle your thinking process and Bingo "yer heads a shed" and it all go's to Bollocks(look that up in a UK dictionary!).
Just a thought or two for you,Yorkie.
 

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Hey there Yorkie!
Enjoyed your post! When you say a single Surgeon's Knot are you saying it's just a single overhand knot? I have always had confidence in Double Surgeon's and it has never occurred to me that a Single would be adequate. Interesting.
Hope ya have a good season!
Loren
 

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Eh up Greenbuttbomber,I settled on a single turn for the 40lb Amnesia as any more turns produces a big bulky knot, that often no matter what will clatter and catch on its journey through the rod rings,30lb Amnesia I usually do 2 turns and thats always been fine.
Cat amongst the pigeons now!.For a lot of years all my mono backed shooting heads were on their own dedicated spools with dedicated backing.The heads were all attached to the mono backing permanently with the hot needle knot!.This hardly makes a sound through the rod rings,dosen't catch up either and is secure as it can ever be!.Trouble is it's expensive in spare spools and mono and dacron backing!.
Some Swedish fishers I've seen, simply blood knot the mono to the loop on the line/head every time, leaving a long tag end and fit a new spool of mono every season, that could work too!.
Yorkie.
 

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Different knots in different places for different reasons.

 
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