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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I had the good fortune of fishing last weekend on the North Umpqua. (I had my recently-typical 10-second hookup in the first pool I hit, but only raised 1, maybe 2, other fish in 3 days. Reports were of slow fishing.)

One highlight of the weekend was setting new personal distance records. It maybe wasn't that great by spey forum standards, but I was pleased. The interesting part was that the longest casts came while I was waist deep.

On the other hand, I struggled more when my feet were barely wet, or worse, elevated above water level while standing on a rock.

So my question is, what is the best way to adjust for wading depth? Is it more of a timing change to maintain the proper amount of anchor, or is it more of an adjustment to the tilt of the rod?

I'm fishing an Airflo Traditional 7/8 on an 8 wt rod, so the question is more focused on mid- and long-belly lines, if that makes a difference.

I think my challenge was mostly with the forward stroke, but since I don't know what my D-loop looks like, I can't say for certain. I do know that this weekend was the first time that I really felt successful in setting up a good D-loop with more than 60 feet of line out the rod tip, 'throwing' the D-loop as a backcast rather than just pulling the anchor into positon.

I felt more than a little pleased with making these good casts while waist deep, and I can't help but feel that I'm close to being really consistent at normal wading depths if I can learn how to make the proper adjustments.

--Bill
 

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Mr. Mom
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Do you have the spey-o-rama video? Nobuo Nodera of CND rods has a segment (his and Al buhr are my favorites) that is great because it focuses almost entirely on the "lift" which lots of folks just kind of gloss over since it isn't exactly the sexiest part of spey casting. He follows a more classic aproach than simon and some of the others, but the bottom line is he states the deeper the water, the higher the lift, which is intuitive. But what really helped me on the water was his tip that the lower the lift, the FASTER the lift. Ankle deep? a low fast lift will actually help you get your anchor or set up better. Deep wading, a high, slow lift will help you clear line from the water and make getting your anchor or set easier.

This may not appear to answer your question about the forward stroke, but it's all the little things combined that come together in those moments before the forward stroke that can make all the difference.

I know what a slow (and hot!) week on the Umpqua is like. Sounds like you did pretty darn good under the prevailing conditions.
 

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"but the bottom line is he states the deeper the water, the higher the lift, which is intuitive. But what really helped me on the water was his tip that the lower the lift, the FASTER the lift. Ankle deep? a low fast lift will actually help you get your anchor or set up better. Deep wading, a high, slow lift will help you clear line from the water and make getting your anchor or set easier."

Thanks, I don't think that I ever heard this before.

Excellent question, SparseHairHackl. This could explain what I have labeled as the black hole syndrome. My casts are doing okay, and I go down stream a couple of steps (probably changed wading depth and never thought about it). Suddenly my casts have gone straight to Spey Hell. If I go back a couple of steps, I have no probem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Guys,

Thanks for the replies. Philster, I will give the low fast lift a try for shallow wades next time out (which due to family duties, might not be this month). :( I've also been thinking about getting the Speyorama video; I haven't even seen it but it sounds like just the ticket for a non-beginner to see a variety of things and pick up great tips like you just passed on.

But why no other replies? :confused: Grampa said this was a great question, and I thought it was, too. Do people change the degree of sidearm in their setup and/or in their forward spey depending upon how deep they are wading?

I don't think this subject has been touched much, if at all, and seems like a good opportunity for somebody to share a bit more knowledge.

--Bill
 

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Mr. Mom
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SparseHairHackl said:
Guys,

Do people change the degree of sidearm in their setup and/or in their forward spey depending upon how deep they are wading?

--Bill
Hmmm... For me, alot of it depends on a number of factors, especially the distance needed to be cast. First of all, unless my elbows are dunking in the water on the forward stroke, I try not to change my stroke because quite frankly, I suck, so if I can avoid changing things I will, since changes often hurt my performance.

If that means my line is flying only 2 or 3 feet over the water and I need to cast a good distance (80 feet or more), I will extend my stroke and "overcast" a little to maximize line speed so I get a good turnover before splasing down at the end of the cast.

If my elbows are hitting the water on the forward stroke, I will raise my hands higher. Unfortunately for me, the higher I raise my hands, the more likely I will start "trunking" as simon calls it or having a "flying butt" as Derek Brown calls it. Same critter, different names. Also the higher I raise my hands the shorter the forward stroke gets. Not by alot, but I notice it.

So in deep water I keep the same stroke if possible, and hit the rod hard if I have to for distance. This is just what I do, and I do it because of lack of skill. If I could raise my hands and maintain good consistent habits, I would rather do that. Working on it...
 

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Pop and Drop

I was fishing the Green in Wyoming the other day and was in a situation where I had to stand in 'Frog Water" in order to work a seam correctly. The water was near the top of my waders and I was having rough time lifting the line smooth and high enough to make right handed single come off. I was using a MidSpey 7/8 with a 15' #3 sink tip, on 12'6" 7 wt. rod. I then tried something that was little different; On the dangle, I started the rod tip out near the top of the water, which was almost horizontal, and Popped the tip straight up to about 11 o'clock. The fly immediately broke the surface tension, I then just drifted the rod around to my right side and let the fly drop into the water off my right shoulder and commenced my forward cast. I was pleasantly surprised as the line shot out across the river in a nice tight loop. It was such a easy move that I now have incorporated that cast when ever I am in deep water.

Henry
 

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I'm having a little trouble picturing what you did.

Were you fishing river left and ended up in the frog water and then did your manuever?

Frog water drives me nuts, and it would be nice to know how to counter it.

Thanks
Dave
 

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Grampa,

I was fishing river left, down through a riffle that was about 100 yards long. The left seam of the riffle was near the middle of the river and slowly worked its way toward some high banks on the far side. In order to fish the seam correctly I was forced into Frog Water that was up near the top of my waders at about 50 yards down stream from where I started. This is where I started using the "Pop and Drop". With water up to my armpits, it just seemed easier to do a fast vertical pop with the rod to get the sink tip and fly to break the surface tension rather than the traditional lift. One thing I want to mention is that with the Pop and Drop, the rod and line relaxes a little after the intial Pop, I then merely guide the line around and off to my right side where I dropped the anchor just off my right shoulder. From there it's just a forward stroke. I hope this answers your question.

Henry
 

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Yelostn re Pop and Drop in Frog Water

I previously posted: Were you fishing river left and ended up in the frog water and then did your manuever?

Frog water drives me nuts, and it would be nice to know how to counter it.

Yelostn801 said:
Grampa,

I was fishing river left, down through a riffle that was about 100 yards long. The left seam of the riffle was near the middle of the river and slowly worked its way toward some high banks on the far side. In order to fish the seam correctly I was forced into Frog Water that was up near the top of my waders at about 50 yards down stream from where I started. This is where I started using the "Pop and Drop". With water up to my armpits, it just seemed easier to do a fast vertical pop with the rod to get the sink tip and fly to break the surface tension rather than the traditional lift. One thing I want to mention is that with the Pop and Drop, the rod and line relaxes a little after the intial Pop, I then merely guide the line around and off to my right side where I dropped the anchor just off my right shoulder. From there it's just a forward stroke. I hope this answers your question.

Henry
Thanks, Henry, that is what I thought that you were talking about. Now I can in my mind's eye see what you did.

What is interesting about this beyond river frog water is this situation can happen in a boat in a lake with some wind or lake currents or a river with tidal effects. I have a friend who I'm teaching how to cast from a boat for lake fishing and future river fishing for stripers. He is using a one handed rod. Our last trip out we got into this situation. He was in the front on the casting platform and his line/tip and fly had drifted down the port side of the boat. He had a Rio Versi tip with a type 8 sinking tip and couldn't get the fly and tip out of the water.

I showed him what you described and when the fly hit the water on my/our right side I did a roll cast forward to set up the cast and did the regular cast with the water load in front after the roll cast. It worked well. After a couple casts, he was getting his fly and the tip out 40 to 50+ feet.

Now I have a name for that manuever, "Pop and Drop". My son uses this technique with his single handed rod, and I use it with my Meiser 9/10 Switch rod on our rivers while fishing for stripers when the tidal effects create this situation in our boats.

I will remember your "Pop and Drop" when fishing frog waters in our rivers and streams.
 
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