A Question For Atlantic Salmon Fisherman
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I'm probably the only one stupid enough to rise for this presentation, but are you serious? Spey casting and Spey rods come from the Spey River in Scotland and everything to do with them is about Atlantic salmon. I do 90% of my salmon fishing on the Miramichi River in New Brunswick - where you apparently are from - and my friends and I do nearly all of our wet fly fishing with two-handed rods. I don't care for them much for dry fly fishing though...
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Leo I also have tried fishing dries with my two handers. I haven't had much success with it. The bombers don't float very long and you are less able to do the quick pick ups and drops that bombers want. You know what it's like with a two handed rod your always way too far and can't see the bug very well let alone try and control it. I think that if you want to fish bombers and bugs a single hander is a much better tool for the job. I could be wrong but this has been my experience with bombers.
Pierre
Pierre
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The reason I ask is, I know our west coast cousins do it and I wonder why we don't. What their technique is I am not sure. What I have tried with great casting success but not catching yet, is this. River right, right hand up snake role cast up river and the exact opposite for the other shore. You can't cast a lot of line because you can't strip fast enough but you can sure cast a Scandi head. Just get the thing up-river, let it drift until it's just a bit below you then do a snake roll up-river. Stand at about a 45 degree angle facing up-river. Try it sometime, it's interesting. Just my thoughts.
two handed dry fly
Leo, I believe the difference west / east, salmon / steelhead is simple. Bombers for salmon is mostly upstream dead drift, out here in the west the bomber {and other floating offerings} are usually fished quartering down on a tight line; in other words, a waking fly.
There is likely some crossover, but generally these are two very different approaches.
Waking a fly is very spey friendly; upstream dead drift, not so much.
Part of this is that bombers and bugs ( I use both for steelhead ) with their spun and cut deerhair bodies tend to get pretty soggy quickly if you don't false cast them to dry them off a bit. Waking, no problem. Throw on a hitch and fly at it. Flies incorporating some foam would probably help. Not traditional, I know, but what can you do?
Check out the Mikulak Sedge; massage a goodly amount of Gink into one of these, and it's pretty hard to sink.
Or you could just admit that for some situations, the single hander just might be the best tool.
Cheers, Chris
Leo, I believe the difference west / east, salmon / steelhead is simple. Bombers for salmon is mostly upstream dead drift, out here in the west the bomber {and other floating offerings} are usually fished quartering down on a tight line; in other words, a waking fly.
There is likely some crossover, but generally these are two very different approaches.
Waking a fly is very spey friendly; upstream dead drift, not so much.
Part of this is that bombers and bugs ( I use both for steelhead ) with their spun and cut deerhair bodies tend to get pretty soggy quickly if you don't false cast them to dry them off a bit. Waking, no problem. Throw on a hitch and fly at it. Flies incorporating some foam would probably help. Not traditional, I know, but what can you do?
Check out the Mikulak Sedge; massage a goodly amount of Gink into one of these, and it's pretty hard to sink.
Or you could just admit that for some situations, the single hander just might be the best tool.
Cheers, Chris
Hi,
Skating flies on the west coast is about tension, anything will skate given enough tension. Some flies are better than others and require no tension to float but some do. Line tension is increased with a downstream belly so if your struggling to get it to skate that is something you can try.
We do some dead drift at the beginning of a swing for steelhead and it actually works well increasing the number of visits, casting at 90 across the stream, pick up the tension at 45 down and that is a common time for them to crush it, the very second that it begins to skate. It makes sense really, its a little like cat and mouse, cats don't chase till mouse runs away and same here, it triggers an aggressive reaction.
I agree that dry fly fishing for Atlantics is very much under utilized especially in Scotland, tradition does not change fast, they are still using long belly lines as the standard and quartering down. However they are starting to skate micro tubes more and more with great success.
Its all about being willing to sacrifice a day and learning and trying new things.
In Iceland where the rivers are gin clear a skated fly broadcasts the fly presence to the whole pool, if they are in the mood it will not be long until one is stirred into action.
Early fresh aggressive salmon/steelhead are the most likely to react in the way you want. Early fresh fish higher up stream are the most trouty in my experience and more willing to take from the surface, thats the case on the Bulkley at least. Lower in the Skeena they will still take from the surface but maybe because they are running hard they are more likely to go for a sub surface option.
Sam
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Skating flies on the west coast is about tension, anything will skate given enough tension. Some flies are better than others and require no tension to float but some do. Line tension is increased with a downstream belly so if your struggling to get it to skate that is something you can try.
We do some dead drift at the beginning of a swing for steelhead and it actually works well increasing the number of visits, casting at 90 across the stream, pick up the tension at 45 down and that is a common time for them to crush it, the very second that it begins to skate. It makes sense really, its a little like cat and mouse, cats don't chase till mouse runs away and same here, it triggers an aggressive reaction.
I agree that dry fly fishing for Atlantics is very much under utilized especially in Scotland, tradition does not change fast, they are still using long belly lines as the standard and quartering down. However they are starting to skate micro tubes more and more with great success.
Its all about being willing to sacrifice a day and learning and trying new things.
In Iceland where the rivers are gin clear a skated fly broadcasts the fly presence to the whole pool, if they are in the mood it will not be long until one is stirred into action.
Early fresh aggressive salmon/steelhead are the most likely to react in the way you want. Early fresh fish higher up stream are the most trouty in my experience and more willing to take from the surface, thats the case on the Bulkley at least. Lower in the Skeena they will still take from the surface but maybe because they are running hard they are more likely to go for a sub surface option.
Sam
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I never tried fishing a Bomber with a two-hander Leo on the Margaree . I see your point , would be a chore in deed . That Miller fellow a couple years back did it with a short 11'9" two-hander and managed to get a few to rise for him . He's a resourceful PEI guy though , he'll make anything work :hihi:
Skating works well with the two-hander , especially at longer distances . Anything under 50' , I prefer a single hander .
Mike
Skating works well with the two-hander , especially at longer distances . Anything under 50' , I prefer a single hander .
Mike
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Haven't seen too many using long bellies in Scotland. Very few use anything longer than 65'. Most use <55'. And more and more are using Scandi heads. Even skagit.
The reason they don't use Dries is because they don't work anything like they do in Canada or Russia. Not just because of 'culture'. Would they work more often if they were used more often under prime dry fly conditions? Yes. Same with hitched flies. Stripped Sunray's are very popular.
In my experience Scottish salmon are more reluctant to take a fly than those in QC or RUS. A lot more reluctant. Even when fresh in and under prime conditions. Crap years like this past one, a few of the bigger rivers still count the total run by tens of thousands.
As to the point of this thread, dead drifting a bomber with a two hander is doable and NOTHING is stopping anyone from using the two hander as an overhead casting device. That way you can dry the fly. Either way, single hand rods are superior for the method.
The reason they don't use Dries is because they don't work anything like they do in Canada or Russia. Not just because of 'culture'. Would they work more often if they were used more often under prime dry fly conditions? Yes. Same with hitched flies. Stripped Sunray's are very popular.
In my experience Scottish salmon are more reluctant to take a fly than those in QC or RUS. A lot more reluctant. Even when fresh in and under prime conditions. Crap years like this past one, a few of the bigger rivers still count the total run by tens of thousands.
As to the point of this thread, dead drifting a bomber with a two hander is doable and NOTHING is stopping anyone from using the two hander as an overhead casting device. That way you can dry the fly. Either way, single hand rods are superior for the method.
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Hi Leo,
I agree with you about using a DH rod for dry flies. Specifically, Using bombers on casts longer than 50'. Shorter casts are quite possible for fishing, but when you lengthen the cast out to 60' to 90', there is a control issue that has to be addressed.
Previous posts have suggested using single handed rods for most dry fly or Bomber situations. A cast of of 90' using a single handed rod is quite a feat and I wonder if the fly can be under any control at that distance.
I have tried using Bombers with a spey rod and it was not pretty. Once you get them out there at 90 to 100', the fly is at the mercy of the current and basically you are swinging. Shorter casts (~50') will allow you more control of your fly.
I don't know if this helps answer your original question. but i have had similar problems trying to fish Bombers for Atlantic salmon.
Doug
I agree with you about using a DH rod for dry flies. Specifically, Using bombers on casts longer than 50'. Shorter casts are quite possible for fishing, but when you lengthen the cast out to 60' to 90', there is a control issue that has to be addressed.
Previous posts have suggested using single handed rods for most dry fly or Bomber situations. A cast of of 90' using a single handed rod is quite a feat and I wonder if the fly can be under any control at that distance.
I have tried using Bombers with a spey rod and it was not pretty. Once you get them out there at 90 to 100', the fly is at the mercy of the current and basically you are swinging. Shorter casts (~50') will allow you more control of your fly.
I don't know if this helps answer your original question. but i have had similar problems trying to fish Bombers for Atlantic salmon.
Doug
I have talked about this subject with very experienced and crazy with dry fly fishing friend from Newfoundland. Of course they mostly use single hand rod (also for wet flies ) but he fish sometime with double hand rod searching for the biggest fish with giant dries (up to 10cm) .
Good option and I thing nice compromise is using switch rod . I was very sceptic with them but after last season experience I become big fun of them
You can use both techniques but preferable is double hand cast
Good option and I thing nice compromise is using switch rod . I was very sceptic with them but after last season experience I become big fun of them
You can use both techniques but preferable is double hand cast
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In Newfoundland the orange bug and bomber are two of our favourite flies and during mid to late season my wife uses them almost exclusively.She uses a 13'2" double handed rod and a 11'3" switch rod.Bombers would be dead drifted most of the time but also skated.She has a bit of a strange technique to do this [necessity is the mother of invention ] but it certainly works for her,and catches lots of fish,for me however I will stick to the wet flies.I will agree that the 9' rod would be ideal for dry flies on our smaller salmon rivers,but we fish a large river and the 9 ft rod would probably feel like a tooth pick to us now.Here's one caught on a bomber.
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