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Spey Is The Way
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Discussion Starter #1
There are some manufacturers of Scandi heads that go around the 500 grain mark. They go from the 460ish range up to 525ish, completely missing 500 grains. Why is this? Some have it well covered which is good . Just wondering why the others don't. I have a rod that I like 500 on, which is why I am asking.

Leo
 

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Spey Hack
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I am not sure of an exact answer to your question but I do know that both Airflo and Rio make a 480 and 510 scandi around 34' I think. I would guess the answer to why there is not a 500 grain line is simply, you cant please everyone in business.
 

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Line weights vary quite a lot anyway and I am sure you can find 500 gr Scandi if you weight enough of them. +30 gr / -20 gr difference is not rare.
 

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It is most likely SA, which is stuck to the right rating/nomenclature without a practical consideration.
 

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I throw a Rio 400gr 23ft body with a 15ft 109 gr. versatip. That's a 38ft 509 gr. skandi. Since from what I understand is you include the weight of the tip on a skandi rig. If not I'm almost sure someone will correct me. :tsk_tsk:
 

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FISHIN' FREELANCER
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There are two weights. Nomenclature (box - web specs, etc) and Actual (direct from accurate scales)

Some manufacturers include a disclaimer of (potential) plus / minus 5% On a 500gr head that could be 25 grains one way or the other. People put to much faith in the box specs.. if your extreme fine tuning or splitting hairs weigh them yourself and note it.
 

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Spey Is The Way
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Discussion Starter #8
It's SA, Guideline and Gaelforce that I know of. I understand the plus or minus 5 % but I am totally dealing with mail order, so I'll wish myself luck with that one. I can sort of understand that Guideline and Gaelforce feel that they don't have a rod of their own in that range but not SA. I don't understand why you would go from 460 grains to 525 grains with nothing in between. I know there are lines out there in the 500/510 range and I'll give credit to Airflo and Rio and Beulah, they have the basses well covered with floating lines. I would like to try a triple density line in the 500 grain range with factory loops. Just my rant.
 

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Scandit sublima virtus
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I throw a Rio 400gr 23ft body with a 15ft 109 gr. versatip. That's a 38ft 509 gr. skandi. Since from what I understand is you include the weight of the tip on a skandi rig. If not I'm almost sure someone will correct me. :tsk_tsk:
You've got it, Rob.
The line makers are faced with an impossible task, because of the wide variability of caster preferences and rod actions.

The answer, of course, is to learn to cut/weld and fine tune your lines to taste.
-and, to learn how to apply casting fundamentals to adjust your stroke to shape the loop you want. The line makers are doing a pretty good job of providing lines in smaller grain increments and are getting fairly accurate in making the lines in the grain weight as advertised. The last 10 years have seen huge improvements in this!
 

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Hi Leo..
all the reply have been good. The need to be totally bang on is not really that important but certainly close.If you were to look at the Snowbee Scandi lines and see the difference between the 7/8 line (24 grams) and the 8/9 (36 grams) ..now that is an abundant change in line weight...so many manufacturers want you to buy more lines ,,,or maybe perfect what works best for you . The original Beulah Elixir lines were not produced in increments of 25 like today...but much more general and worked just fine...to be fair to Snowbee you also have to understand that their Scandi lines and heads are also designed to be cut down to match the casters needs ,in so doing provide a scandi head length of 44'.One can actually keep much of the head inside the rod depending on your casting need at the time..
When someone calls us at our store and ask for a line weight and ***** about 5 grains we simply listen but pay no attention to their babble .
Good fly rods can easily shift a few grains around without detection
C
 

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Scandit sublima virtus
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BTW, Leo, if you want a scandi head that's dead on at 500gr/40 feet I can hook you up. In new condition.
 

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If you ask someone to open several boxes of SA UST shooting heads you might get exact weight what you are after. This text is copied from SA pages:

"Have you seen that little sticker attached to the UST line when you open the box..? I often get questions about this sticker...here is an explanation. On one side of the sticker you will find Line Weight. Under line weight you will find a handwritten number. The line to the right in the picture, you see handwritten 524gr. In the USA they use the measurement Grains instead of Grams. 524 Grains = 33,95 Grams. This means that EVERY SINGLE UST LINE has been weighted by hand before it leaves the SA factory. This is quality assurance/ quality control.
 

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If you ask someone to open several boxes of SA UST shooting heads you might get exact weight what you are after. This text is copied from SA pages:

"Have you seen that little sticker attached to the UST line when you open the box..? I often get questions about this sticker...here is an explanation. On one side of the sticker you will find Line Weight. Under line weight you will find a handwritten number. The line to the right in the picture, you see handwritten 524gr. In the USA they use the measurement Grains instead of Grams. 524 Grains = 33,95 Grams. This means that EVERY SINGLE UST LINE has been weighted by hand before it leaves the SA factory. This is quality assurance/ quality control.


I have handled many in the recent years from GL, NextCast, Airflo or Rio, and have yet to find one which weights more/less then 0.3 gram.

If would be nice if SA UST were 7/8, 8, 8/9, 9 etc. instead in 60 gr or so increments. They claim UST are better b/c no need to adjust from the back ( like GL 3D).

If they made in 30 gr or so increments the marketing argument could hold, but with 60 gr........:Eyecrazy::Eyecrazy:

We all know that most of casters/anglers even at mid-level skill will feel 30 gr difference. What if an angler likes rod at 490 gr , UST 460 is to light and 525 a bit to heavy.

Do not get me wrong, quality ofUST line is great, and they are very good heads, if you are lucky that your rod fits perfectly into what they offer.
 

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Spey Is The Way
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Discussion Starter #14
We all know that most of casters/anglers even at mid-level skill will feel 30 gr difference. What if an angler likes rod at 490 gr , UST 460 is to light and 525 a bit to heavy.
That is exactly my point. I will never get to try a SA line for that particular rod. I was in business for 26 years and understand expenses verses profits but that is a large jump in grain weight to satisfy customers.
 

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Jumping in here since it's a similar topic.

I just upgraded to an H2 switch #8 after breaking a single handed rod. This is my first two handed rod.

I got an elixir head at 400 grains 29'. 10' poly leader.
After poking around here (and from Orvis's line recommendations) I realized I could (should?) probably go with a heavier head.

Any words of wisdom appreciated.
 

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Recreational User
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Lotta ways to get from 480 to 500, ESPECIALLY with Scandi.

Modify your leader length / dia / density, right there is 30gr.

As a nod to the others who brought this up, grab a scale and weigh lines. Order 4 each 475 / 480 / 500 /510, odds are there will be one that will fit your narrow needs. Better yet, ask the shop you buy from to weigh them and buy the one tha suits your needs.

IMO, 30gr makes a big (BIG) difference in feel, but if I don't have the line that is perfect for the rod, I just tweak the other portions of the cast and setup until t throws.

YMMV.
 

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Jumping in here since it's a similar topic.

I just upgraded to an H2 switch #8 after breaking a single handed rod. This is my first two handed rod.

I got an elixir head at 400 grains 29'. 10' poly leader.
After poking around here (and from Orvis's line recommendations) I realized I could (should?) probably go with a heavier head.

Any words of wisdom appreciated.
Very light lines are fun and easy to cast and fish with a TH rod. See few videos there are on YouTube of Mr Göran Anderson Underhand Casting.

Of course light line does not deliver big fly but sometimes small is good. I use up to 1.5 times rod length of leader for very small fly and about rod length for medium size fly. I also use longer length of overhang up to 2ft when wading shallow but when standing in deep water no overhang and this helps keeping my casting constant.

Polyleaders are handy gadgets to tune casting and fishing but unfortunately they break too easy. Perhaps new ones are more durable but I have not bought them anymore.

Esa
 

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Scandit sublima virtus
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G Smolt: "IMO, 30gr makes a big (BIG) difference in feel, but if I don't have the line that is perfect for the rod, I just tweak the other portions of the cast and setup until t throws."

You bet. Adapting the cast to a point will do wonders. I like the SA lines, they had some trad-length (not compact) scandi heads that are beautiful. 60 gr increments IS a bit much, but one could snip a few feet out of the belly and splice it back if that's a big issue,

Bender:"Polyleaders are handy gadgets to tune casting and fishing but unfortunately they break too easy. Perhaps new ones are more durable but I have not bought them anymore."

I think the newer ones are better, Bender, the ones I've bought in the last few years have all been pretty tough and I haven't wrecked one yet. And I'm pretty proficient at wrecking tips...:eek:
I agree that polys are a useful tool for fine-tuning a scandi head, and the better durability now might warrant giving them another try!

cheers,
Bob
 

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Trout & Salmon - 11.3ft switch, 15ft spey, 9ft single handed rods, various 6-7wt
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I throw a Rio 400gr 23ft body with a 15ft 109 gr. versatip. That's a 38ft 509 gr. skandi. Since from what I understand is you include the weight of the tip on a skandi rig. If not I'm almost sure someone will correct me. :tsk_tsk:
Old post I know! I’m new to two handed rods...had a 34’ 410 grain scandi and a 15 foot #10 tip (150 grain) given to me. Do you think the 410 will turn that tip over? I guess I could always try it and see. If not...maybe trim back the tip to a 10 footer? Rather than buying new stuff first...I’m going to try to experiment as much as possible with what I’ve got or got access to. Thanks in advance:)
 

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I don't think the scandi will turn over a 15' tip with150 grains. Probably not a 10' tip with 100 grains either. A 500 grain+ skagit or scandi body will do it.
 
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