[fredaevans]

I've got the B and W 18 foot rod that states a 10wt DT or a 11wt WF on the blank. This is the rod I use when chasing Mr. Spring Kings. Tips of choice are the RIO big boys in 400, 500 and 600 grains depending upon how much water the clowns who run the damn dam choose to dump. (1917 cfs on Thursday - PERFECT!!, bit over 2000 on Saturday, then to just a tweek under 3,000 at midnight on Sat., for the Sunday fishing. Complete wash out ... Sucked for fly rod use anywhere on the Rogue.)

Back to the question: The 'normal' head I'm using for 300-400 grain big boys is a cut back 10wt DT. With a 30 grain head you can cast this a mile and a half; with a 400 grain BB you can "Perry Poke" them very well. With a 500 grain your into over head casting (Damned imprressive to see this much line flying off the water.) and 600 grain .... sigh ....

Main problem is leverage I've got with a 18' spey rod, head behind the heavy tips I don't to get them off the water. So ... how big (13-14 wt DT, 11-12 Mid spey??) as a 'launcher line' to move extreamly heavy BB's out of the water.
fae

 

[flytyer]

Fred,

Despite my liking and prefering to fish the really long belly lines like the XLT or my favorite the GrandSpey, I would use the 11/12/13 Windcutter with both tips removed as a launcher line (or Skagit Spey line) to throw those large Bib Boys, or the 10/11/12 Windcutter with only the floating tip removed to do the same thing. A 10/11 MidSpey with both tips removed would pretty much do the same thing as the 10/11/12 Windcutter with only the floating tip removed.

Any of these setups should allow you to simply pick the Big Boy out of the water and send it on its way with your 18ft B&W.

 

[fredaevans]

FT, I've got two 10-11-12 cut back WC's I

use for this purpose. My assumption that they'd be too light is obviously off the mark; I'll load one up and give it a go.
fae

 

[Speybro]

Hi Fred

Interesting question and something I should have put in print somewhere. I use the 400 grain Big Boys on a my 8/9/10 WindCutter, though the 9/10/11 is a better line for this tip. The 500 grain I always rig on the 10/11/12 and a 600!!! well, that would go on the 11/12/13 - if you were ever that keen to work!

In all cases, it is pretty vital that you remove the middle Tip 2. For MidSpey lines I would go the same 9/10 for the 400, 10/11 for the 500 and 11/12 for the 600. The 600 is only speculation as I have never had to go so deep or found such a powerful river - it would scare me and I would feel it may be better to withdraw with a bottle of Glen Ord.

Thanks again for sharing your invaluable Glen Ord! :eyecrazy: The spey clave was memorable for many occasions and that was one of the best.

Tight lines
Simon

ps A side note. I was teaching a class in Sacramento in April and I was showing the guys how to cast BigBoys. I gave one chap the 400 grain Big Boy and told him to rig it on a 9/10/11 on his 9141. When we went to cast the thing cast beautifully and shot good line. However when I looked at the rod label he had rigged it on the 9/10/11 (without Tip 2) on his 7141!!! I would never have had the balls to try such a heavy outfit on the 7141, but it cast pretty well - just goes to show we are always learning!!

 

[fredaevans]

Gotta admit, your wife had a job involving 'great joy.'

No wonder you're such a 'happy camper.'

Darned interesting to see the reference to a 11-12-13 WC, in both a tri tip and a standard line. Never noticed RIO had such a line designation. But given the cost of each (tip vs. 'whole line) what I've been doing (with a ton of Mark B's help!) is using cut back standard WC lines for "launcher lines."

I've got two (10-11-12 WC's) he's made up for me for use on my 14 and 15 foot Sage 9wt speys. One of the lines (for the 14 footer?) was cut back to a 42' head, the other to a 47' head. Doesn't sound like much of a difference, but you can reallllly tell if you put the 'wrong reel' on the rod.

Assuming I wanted to do this again (have extra redington 13-14 LA spools) where would you cut the larger WC back to provide adequate head grains to back up the 600 BB?

And your right ..... when the damn dam is running in the 3,000 cfs range the lead-chuckers are using 2.5-3 oz lead sinkers ... and those are just skimming the river bottom.
:whoa:
fae

 

[Bob Pauli]

Fred

Hi Fred,
May I suggest you use the Rio line section weight table I posted a while back. Cut your lines [and weigh them] to match the published body weights of the lines Simon suggested.

Did u suggest using a pharmacist for checking line weights? If so he may become your best friend before this project is over.

 

[flytyer]

Fred,

Cut the Windcutter another 10 feet back from the first cut. I use 11 1/2 ft of 700 gr, Deep Water Express on my T&T 1611 with the 10/11 GrandSpey that I cut at 15 ft. I used to chuck 25 feet of the 700 gr, Deep Water Express with a 10/11/12 Windcutter cut at 15 ft from the tip; but had to cut it back to 11 1/2 with the GrandSpey to cast it.

Simon,

I've thought of using the 800 gr Deep Water Express in the past; but I quickly regained my sanity and never did. I couldn't imagine using the 600 Big Boy, the river would have to be half-way up the river-side trees, or so deep and fast that it would be composed of Class V Rapids!

I'd be afraid of breaking the 7141 with the line combo this lad used! I've seen folks here in the Skagit Valley using the 7141 with 9/10/11 Windcutters with both tips removed and sink tips added during the winter and thought they were a bit foolish to do this. Why not get the proper size rod for using a 9 or 10 wt line instead of turning the Windcutter into a head to use it with the light rod? Go figure.

 

[fredaevans]

FT: question on your suggestion above/below.

"Cut the Windcutter another 10 feet back from the first cut. I use 11 1/2 ft of 700 gr, Deep Water Express on my T&T 1611 with the 10/11 GrandSpey that I cut at 15 ft. I used to chuck 25 feet of the 700 gr, Deep Water Express with a 10/11/12 Windcutter cut at 15 ft from the tip; but had to cut it back to 11 1/2 with the GrandSpey to cast it. "

Are you talking about cutting the 10-11-12 (remember I've got one cut back to a 47' head and one to 42' head) back to 37' or 32'?
fae

 

[flytyer]

Fred,

I was talking about cutting the Windcutter back 1st 15 feet to 40 feet, which is what I used to use to throw the 25 feet of 700 gr Deep Water Express. If I was using the 500 or 600 gr. Big Boy, I would cut another 8 to 10 feet leaving me with between 30 and 33 feet of belly before the bib Boy was looped on. With the Big Boy looped on to this, you would be casting between 55 and 57 feet (or about the same amount of belly and front taper as with the uncut Windcutter. The reason I would use either the 10/11/12 or 11/12/13 Windcutter is to have sufficient belly mass to launch those large Big Boys of 500 and 600 grains.

And doing this same cutting on a MidSpey would provide similar results with the line being 10 feet longer. That is why the 10/11 or 11/12 MidSpey should word with no problem either.

 

[fredaevans]

FT, with Simon's help I'm going to try an experiment.

He was able to locate a 10/11 Aclrtr line for me (one of my ALL TIME fav. spey lines; I'll part with the ones I have when they've given up the ghost.) to 'experiment with' as a launcher line.

Will report back.
fae

 

[flytyer]

Fred,

I liked the Accelerator as a dry line; but did not like it with sink tips. However, I did speak to Simon at the Bellevue show about making the MidSpey 70 to 75 feet long, which would put it about half-way between the Windcutter and the GrandSpey in belly length. Thus we would have a line that would be about the same belly length as the old Accelerator that has the modern step taper design of the MidSpey.

I think that if this were done, it would make grease line fishing with the rods shorter than 14 feet a joy since you would almost never have to shoot line. And it would provide folks with a longer belly line than the Windcutter who do not like, need, or desire using or learning how to cast the extra-long belly lines like the GrandSpey (which is now my favorite line).

Simon and Jim,

I still wish you would make this slight change to the MidSpey.

 

[fredaevans]

FT, we'll find out soon.

A 'Glen Ord' single malt "bribe" can go a long way. :devil: Actually looking forward to trying this combo; works well, .... or it doesn't. That's why they call it 'fishing,' not 'catching.'


fae