Spey Pages banner

And who says you cant use marabou for intruders...

14K views 30 replies 18 participants last post by  flytyer 
#1 ·
I was driving back from doing a bit of fishing. And was thinking about a few of my early day musky flies i have tied. Well i recalled that i used a braided mylar for a head once. This was tied reversed then pulled back, and i figure well hell this would make a great collar for marabou, or even your tradition intruder materials or prom dress. But i thought for marabou being that there is not any good way to keep the fly 'cone' like and as a plus its a synthetic(strength), and doesnt retain water. So i got home and hit the vise.
here is the result, lemme know you thoughts, enoy.
-I tied this on to a hmh 3/32 tube, use what you would like for size.
-cut off a section of braided mylar, slide onto tube, and tie on the back of it...
-continue to tie 'backwards' and add in flash braid, or whatever desired; wrap forward to the back of braided mylar, whip finish or half hitch. Cut. Throw on the thread sealer.
-pull mylar back, this will be your collar, i put a bit of nail polish hardener at the base to keep it stiff. Start your thread again in front of mylar.
-wrap in three desired colors of marabou, and palmer them back as you make your marabou wraps.
-add in schap. or hackle
-Create your head, whip finish or half hitch, lay down some finisher. If you want to add a cone head, add that in otherwise melt down your tube.
Then GET FISHY
 

Attachments

See less See more
5
#3 ·
At the risk of sounding "elitist" and getting a few folks upset, guys, please quit calling flies INTRUDERS that don't look anything like Ed Ward's original pattern.

To answer the critics, yes, it matters because otherwise everything will become so convoluted that folks will not be able to communicate with others about flies, belly length spey lines, types of casts, etc. This is precisely why people like myselfe, Marty, Dec, Halcyon, and others are sticklers about calling things by their historically correct terminology or name.

If we make an analogy to cars, a sportscar would totally lose its meaning since different folks would call different types of cars sportscars. For instance, I and other like Marty would stick to the traditional definition of sportscar: a 2-seat car with 2 bucket seats, limited luggage space, that sits low to the ground, and it fun to drive on twisty roads. Some others decide to call any fast, 2-door a sportscar whether it has back seats and a good amount of luggage space. While still others call a 4-door that has high horsepower, low-profile tires, plenty of leg room in both front and rear seat areas, and gobs of luggage (i.e. trunk) space a sportscar. Pretty soon the term sportscar loses any usefulness it once had. Same thing happens with flies and other aspects of fly fishing.
 
#5 ·
Nice looking tube fly. Maybe a bit of amherst fibers on top of the maribou to keep the profile wide while the maribou pulsates in the current. Tie up some more!
 
#6 ·
Please do not take it bad, but the depicted fly looks mainly as a kind of bolky spider, not as an intruder. Fresh ideas are always great and i think this one could prove very useful, but again that's not an intruder.
 
#7 ·
reply

yah it swims really great. and no i havent tried any stiff dry fly hackles yet. Yah amherst would work really good i think, i think some rhea behind the marabou would look pretty sweet. Okay, okay i get the idea of "intruder" no need to explain, but the point that i am driving across is that i would like to show people a way to keep marabou 'cone' like, now what if i go and tie this larger, and some things that incorporate in a intruder, or a prom dress... as i mentioned. I am not trying to change the intruder, i am only showing something different. And yes, there is a whole thing about intruders, what makes an intruder, a intruder? yah there is a great thread here along with skagitmaster's forum. In my OPINION, an intruder is the use of materials to give a cone like presentation to keep the fly a large profile, keep it light weight in a sense; maybe not always use of ostrich, rhea, etc!?! But that is what is great about fly fishing and fly tying, rules are ment to be broke, think outside the box; else hell where would it be today?! So call it what you want.
 
#10 ·
like i said this TECHNIQUE could be used for prom dress, intruder, spider etc etc etc. Note I did not call this an intruder...
The funny thing is, Ed might call it one. He has said it isn't about multiple tie in stations, or if it's tied on shanks, or how the hook is attached, or anything like that. As long as its "engineered" (his word) to present a bulky appearance, that is "translucent" (again his word), meaning that you can see through the bulk, and it's large, it seems to qualifies for him. Kind of like religion. The followers are usually more dogmatic than the originator ;)
 
#9 ·
I use the same technique on a number of the flies I tie, very effective. The photo of the fly makes it hard to see the end product but from what I can see it looks good. As for the Intruder “statement” not much I can add to Flytyers post. I do agree with the “break the rules” comment, but you first must understand what the rules are before they can be broken. Not trying to pick a fight but the title of this thread is a perfect example of how the freedom of the internet can and is diluting the accuracy of the original information. Ed was fishing marabou flies prior to the work he did on the Intruder. A little research on the evolution of the Intruder would shed some light on why Ed move away from the use of marabou. The Intruder as Ed’s says is engineered. There is a purpose for every wrap of thread. The material used for the fly were not randomly selected and slapped on a hook. Not saying that is what you have done here, the information you have posted is very informative. Just a little off in the Intruder reference. So go ahead and break the rules, be creative and have fun with your tying because that’s what it is all about.

Effectie Intruder variation using marabou, would have worked as a title. But then your fly not being tied fore and aft its a bit too far off to even be called a variation. Keep up the good work, tyers like you, that think outside the box bring far more to the table and are a very important part of the tying community.
 
#13 ·
Marty is absolutely right on. Ed Ward's INTRUDER was designed to act in a very specific manner when fished and every material, placement of the material, and even the led-eyes are utilized in exactly the manner they are used in order to achieve Ed's goal of the INTRUDER swimming in the manner he wished when swung through a run. Marabou flies (usually tied as marabou spiders, which even George Cook's POPICICAL is) no matter how large or if tied as a fore-and-aft fly are not INTRUDERS. They are not tied like INTRUDERS. They are not composed of the same materials placed in the same places on the fly. And they do not swim the same way.

Yes, this is important because as Marty, myself, and some others have said before, when you call something a thing that it is not, it confuses things. And like my sportscare analogy, the term ends up becoming meaningless with everyone being the loser for it.

As Marty has shown with the fly he posted that is large and translucent in response to folks who take a little of what Ed said out of context clearly an INTRUDER is more than a large fly with translucence.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Marty is absolutely right on. Ed Ward's INTRUDER was designed to act in a very specific manner when fished and every material, placement of the material, and even the led-eyes are utilized in exactly the manner they are used in order to achieve Ed's goal of the INTRUDER swimming in the manner he wished when swung through a run. Marabou flies (usually tied as marabou spiders, which even George Cook's POPICICAL is) no matter how large or if tied as a fore-and-aft fly are not INTRUDERS. They are not tied like INTRUDERS. They are not composed of the same materials placed in the same places on the fly. And they do not swim the same way.

I don't agree that Materials make the fly. If you tie a Marabou Clouser or Polarbear Clouser or Craft Fur Clouser, they're still all clousers...Yet I don't see the same defense of the Clouser, which was engineered with a purpose?

I tie a Intruder where the only materials that are the same as Eds are Amherst . I use Polar Bear instead of Deer for Translucence and not worrying about floatation, and Rhea for better flow then Ostrich. I use real eyes instead of Lead cause of not needing the weight to break the deer hair curse, and Polar Chenille for more translucence then regular chenille. I also don't like the 'front and back' as I like go fish my intruders smaller so I can fish clearer water.



Hard to see how If i called this fly anything but an Intruder that it would not be claimed as a rip-off, yet if I called it an Intruder I'd be wrong?

Man it must be cold everywhere and not just here, we all need to go fishing!
 
#14 ·
sports car anology

I was once scolded for refering to an MG as a sports car. Sports cars, I was told, were the likes of Corvette's, to which a polite toot of the horn was in order when encountered on the road. A Ferrari was deserving of a salute. And you were to pull over to the shoulder, get out and bow to a Lamborgini. :chuckle:

MG's. Triumph's and the like were just sporty little cars.
 
#15 ·
JD,

Ah yes, many who own the high horsepower 2-seaters that have loads of grip look down their noses at folks who merely own the small bretheren sports cars like MGs, Triumphs Miatas, Fiats, etc. Likewise many who own Ferrari's, Lambos, Aston Martins, etc. think their's are superior because they paid more the twice what the Corvette and Porche owners did. Despite this, all 2-seaters meet the definition of sports care, even those with little 4-bangers under the hood.
 
#18 ·
bigbadbrent,

Regarding the CLOUSER MINNOW, the originator doesn't tie his with anything other than bucktail. He doesn't use marabou, craft, fur, calftail, or polar bear (although I think polar bear and other bear fur would make a fine CLOUSER). He used and still uses polar bear because of its stiffness and ability to provide the illusion of bulk when tied sparsely as he designed the CLOUSER MINNOW to be. He also uses Krystal Flash and not Flashabou because Krystal Flash is stiffer and has those little twinkles of flash.

The INTRUDER without the fore-and-aft tying of materials as Ed designed it, doesn't swim the same way. Substituting rhea for ostrich doesn't change the way the fly swims, so it is a no-never-mind. Likewise, changing from regular chenile to one of the plastic sparkle cheniles doesn't change the way it swims either, so again, this is a no-never-mind. Real eyes, led-eyes, cone heads all provide the same function and produce the same effect, so once more, use whichever one you like because they don't change the way the fly swims. Using polar bear instead of deer body hair, does change the way the fly swims; however, you can have the fly swim the same way with the use of spun egg yarn, spun sheep, or even one of the newer long-fibered, spikey synthetic "hackle type yarns".

This fly you posted is a very nice and excellently tied fly, but it is not an INTRUDER and it will not swim the same way.
 
#24 ·
Keep in mind...

...that the Intruder isn't just "my" fly. It is a collaboration of efforts of several individuals, myself, Jerry French, and Scott Howell being the most "public" of the "clan". An "official" definition isn't on the books. Personally, I consider it to be a descriptor for a general "style" of tie. If one were to see a sampling of mine, Jerry's, and Scott's flies together, there would be a perceivable difference between our ties, but also a definite similarity. That similarity would be the incorporation of a wound or spun "under collar" to provide a "propping up" of another larger-than-standard wound or hackled material in order to create a large-yet-not-solid or opaque, fly profile with maximum animation and better large fly castability due to the "size" of the fly being established via material "hydrodynamics" rather than "amount" of materials used. This under collar plus propped material we call "stations". We have Intruders tied with from only one station, all the way up to four, depending on size of fly. My "summer box" is stuffed with SINGLE station Intruders. I generally use deer hair collars on my stations, while Jerry and Scott are more into Arctic Fox and Polar bear. Our propped materials have ranged from Ostrich and Rhea, to marabou, turkey, swan, various pheasants, Arctic Fox, craft fur... you name it, we've probably used it. With the use of a little imagination outside traditional concepts of a fly, the opportunities for creating unique ties are almost limitless. We don't claim to be the originators of "propping" materials in flies by any means, but, prior to the Intruder, propping had not been a "mainstream" tieing method, nor had it been employed to the extent with which the Intruder has taken it.
 
#25 ·
Yyup!!!....

...that the Intruder isn't just "my" fly. It is a collaboration of efforts of several individuals, myself, Jerry French, and Scott Howell being the most "public" of the "clan". An "official" definition isn't on the books. Personally, I consider it to be a descriptor for a general "style" of tie. If one were to see a sampling of mine, Jerry's, and Scott's flies together, there would be a perceivable difference between our ties, but also a definite similarity. That similarity would be the incorporation of a wound or spun "under collar" to provide a "propping up" of another larger-than-standard wound or hackled material in order to create a large-yet-not-solid or opaque, fly profile with maximum animation and better large fly castability due to the "size" of the fly being established via material "hydrodynamics" rather than "amount" of materials used. This under collar plus propped material we call "stations". We have Intruders tied with from only one station, all the way up to four, depending on size of fly. My "summer box" is stuffed with SINGLE station Intruders. I generally use deer hair collars on my stations, while Jerry and Scott are more into Arctic Fox and Polar bear. Our propped materials have ranged from Ostrich and Rhea, to marabou, turkey, swan, various pheasants, Arctic Fox, craft fur... you name it, we've probably used it. With the use of a little imagination outside traditional concepts of a fly, the opportunities for creating unique ties are almost limitless. We don't claim to be the originators of "propping" materials in flies by any means, but, prior to the Intruder, propping had not been a "mainstream" tieing method, nor had it been employed to the extent with which the Intruder has taken it.

...Spot on ED spot on,well said!!!

Cheers,Wild Bill.:smokin:
 
#27 ·
Now that is what I am talking about. The addition of Jungle Cock really adds a touch of class. The flies are tied in the style of an Intruder and would fish as the originator intended. As Ed states many different material have been used in the tying of the Intruder, so it is not as much a material thing as a size and shape thing. Just because a fly is tied on a shank, is big and has dumbbell eye does not make it an Intruder. I have seen bunny flies, marabous, minnows and globs of materials wrapped on a shank classified as Intruders by tyers who have more than likely never seen an Intruder. I tied the Wooly Bugger to illustrate how a fly “pattern” can be altered from the original but maintain the design and function. The Intruder is a pattern (style) and as long as the basic steps of construction are followed the fly can be called an Intruder. Now to help clarify it one step further a second identifier should be added like, Pink Crystal Intruder or Orange and Black Intruder. This system is nothing new and has been used in the fly tying world for generations. I am not sure where it got derailed, my guess would be the net.
 
#28 ·
Ed,

As much as I like you and your contributions to steelhead fly fishing, spey casting, and lines, I disagree with you in your assessment of the INTRUDER being the first mainstream use of "propping" in a fly. Bob Aide's MARABOU SPIDERS, George Cook's 'POPSICAL' style (both of which used a "bump" or "hump" of chenile as a way to 'prop' up the marabou and keep it from completely collapsing when swung), and a certain Massachusettes trout fly tyer's 'MARABOU SPIDER STREAMERS' all were and still are mainstream flies that use "propping". And all preceeded your fly by at least 10 years.
 
#29 ·
forgive me professor,
but what about haig browns spiders ,
it was way back more than 10 yrs.
or did my homework ,not serve me well ,sir ....
good to see you ,been a long time hasnt it .
hope to hook up with you and jack on my round trip ,dont have a date yet.
m:)e
 
#30 ·
ironically the Japanese produce alot of 'sports cars' that have 2 doors and 4 seats, bugger all luggage room with little 4 bangers under the hoods.
Definition of x can become a little to stringent i think sometimes, yes eds pattern is engineered as he said *note in skagit master 1 the fly tied is without lead eyes, there can be variations) but this fly to is engineered in no uncertain way, the materials were thought out etc, so no discredit to the tier, good work, perhaps it should be called an intruder 'variant' or 'style'?
Sure there is value to having a name of a fly for namesake but the principles of the tie if more or less adhered to is what makes a fly a fly for me, if one replaces a collar of saddle hackle for say spey hackle (the product name not mine) but still produces the same result just with longer fibres that may result in a tad more colour being seen is the tie wrong? I would say no.
If the use of marabou is to give the fly maximum movement and the result is the same as using ostrich but can be used for smaller intruders (lets say 3inch) is that wrong? Again i would say not, the thought process (or the engineering) is still in place to achieve the same result (and we would be splitting hairs to say that ostrich gives a tonne more movement than marabou, in fact the difference would probably not be measurable) and one still achieves the holo look, in some ways one could argue that unless one uses the exact flash ed uses it would not be the same and could not be a true intruder, again we are splitting hairs with this.
This fly having only one collar could perhaps be called half an intruder :chuckle:

i take nothing from the originators of any invention and totally agree when some flies are called this and that when clearly they are not, other slight variations of the original however im sure would not confuse the masses nor insult the originator.
As for the sport cars, think back to the 50's and 60's, do you think in todays consumer eyes the sports cars of then even qualify as sports cars compared to whats available now? Some would say yes, some would say no, its almost a case of the eye of the beholder. :)
 
#31 ·
Absolutely those lovely little 2-seat sports cars of the '50's with the little 4-bangers or large sixes are sports cars still today. Granted, they won't go 180 mph or more like the modern supercar sportscars, but they are still fun to drive, little 2-seaters with limited luggage room that just like the modern sports car, meet the definition of sports car with aplomb. Yes, there are some lovely Japanese and other including US and European cars with 4 seats and 2-doors that handle very well and are loads of fun to drive. But they are not sports cars. Rather they are GT cars, even if the back seats are there to more to thwart insurance rate setters. Heck, there are even some really potent, fun to drive, good handling station wagons and even one mighty good handling SUV (the Grand Cherokee SRT8) on the market today. But they aren't sports cars either, nor are they so-called "muscle cars" (something we never called a car back in the day, we simply called them "performance cars"). They are performance cars, not sports cars or GT cars.

But I digressed.

Kevin,

Yes, Haig-Brown's "Spiders" are far older than Bob Aide's or Gartside's flies. And yes, they used a bump or prop. Kinney's REVERSE SPIDER also predates the INTRUDER and it most definitely uses a prop behind the duck flank hackle collar.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top