Warts & All SBS.... - Spey Pages
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2009, 01:51 PM Thread Starter
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Warts & All SBS....

Red Badger Single

This is a “warts and all” sbs of my first attempt at a Glasso style (and I use that term advisedly!) tie. This is the tie that will be winging its way towards the ‘pages swap, and for all those ‘unfortunates’ who will have to tolerate my mediocre tying. The pictures have been snapped as tied, first take, and thus, on reviewing the pics on my image editor (for re-sizing only), I can see some quite prominent ‘warts’.

However, I must pay tribute to all those superb tyers on the ‘pages who have inspired me to make the leap into an attempt at a proper tie, however crass this first attempt is.

Now I would wish to improve my tying, so all I would ask is for you all to be brutally honest with any commentary, in order that I may take on board such as to improve for the next time!

Anything I have done correctly is down to learning it from you guys – you know who you are!

Here it is:

Starting with a #4 Mustad single in the vice (see, I’ve already missed out on using an AJ hook!), and 8/0 orange tying thread, a length of fine French silver tinsel twist is tied in along the hook shank towards the bend



The silver tinsel is wrapped 5 or 6 turns as a tag



After tying in a length of medium French oval silver tinsel twist on the ‘dark side’ of the hook shank, a pheasant rump feather is selected (don’t even know the type of pheasant, as it came off a skin out of an unmarked bag!, but perhaps ‘greyish!).



The pheasant feather is tied in at its tip



A length of yellow floss is tied in next (I know, I gotta get some better quality floss!)



Wrap the floss down to the tag, and back up the shank to make the rear ½ of the body



Select some orange dyed seals fur (subs. = OK)



Spin a small pinch of the seals fur onto the thread



Wrap the seals fur to create the front ½ of the body



Start wrapping the medium French oval silver tinsel twist in open even turns



tbc....

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2009, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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W & A - part deux

Complete the ribbing & tie off



Wrap the doubled pheasant feather following immediately in front of the tinsel ribbing



Pull down & pinch the hackle to all below the hookshank level



Select a large webby orange-dyed grizzle hackle



Strip off the basal fibres, and select the length of hackle suitable for the hook/tie



Tie in the grizzle hackle



Take just 2 turns of the orange grizzle hackle as a collar/throat



Again, sweep down & pinch the grizzle hackle fibres to below the hook shank level, for the throat of the fly



Select the winging feathers from a burnt orange dyed Chinese neck, and a red-dyed silver badger cape



Select the 4 feathers needed for the Glasso style wing, an orange pair for underneath, the red badger pair on the outside



tbc....

If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles (spey rods). Doug Larson

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2009, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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W & A - finale

Measure the appropriate (?) length of hackle needed for the hook



Strip the excess hackle fibres from the base of the 4 feathers to the correct length, and check against the hook again



The 4 hackle feathers almost prepared…



Prior to tying in, create a gentle curve in each of the prepared hackle feathers appropriate to the side of the fly they will sit on



I have tied all 4 winging feathers in together, the 4 stems lying atop the shank near the eye, and this seemed to allow none of the feathers to twist whilst holding firmly with the left hand as the thread was wrapped with the right



Trim the excess stems, and I added a drop of varnish on the incomplete head



Complete the head with the orange tying thread, and varnish for the completed fly



Close up of the head



Top view of completed fly




Now remember – be brutally honest, as I need to learn!

And for those in the swap, my most humble apologies for all the mistakes!

Mike

If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles (spey rods). Doug Larson

Take only photographs, retain only memories, leave only a good impression of yourself, perhaps just footprints.

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2009, 02:10 PM
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Maybe a turn of yellow or red guini for the collar, shorten up the wing a touch, but realy, damn nice just the way it is Good work- Bet the fish dig it!
What number mustad hook is that ?? That's a nice looking hook. Have you used that perticular mustad much? Any opinion on it's performance?



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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2009, 04:26 PM
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Mike,

Your ribbing, spey hackle, and collar are excellent!!! The body segment proportions are also excellent.

Here are the things that need a bit of adusting:

1) The wing is quite a bit too long. Glasso tied his hackle tip spey wings in the same proportionate length as the spey fly tyers of the 19th century. In other words, the wing is not longer than the hook bend and is always somewhere between the hook barb and hook bend in length from its tie-in point.

2) The wing is also not correct in its orientation. Your wing is tied in as a knife edge, vertical wing. Glasso tied his wings so the hackle tips tented over the body. If you use the site's search function and look for hackle tip spey wings, you will find detailed, step-by-step instructions on how to do this that I've posted before. In short, you need to tie the right and left wings in separately and make sure the top of each wing is even with the center of the body and the bottom of each wing is canted off to the side of the hook the wing is tied in on. TIP: to help get the wing to "tent" or cant properly, tie it in by catching a few of the hackle barbs with you thread at the tie-in point instead of by the bare stem. Plus, only use 2 turns of thread to tie in each side of the wing so you can make adjustments to the wing length and orientation if needed. Then after any adjustments are made, lock it is place with 2 rather tight turns of thread.

3) Glasso also covered the hook shank with flat silver tinsel before he tied in the floss. This prevents the floss from darkening when wet. The easy way to do this is to start the flat silver tinsel (I assume you are using good quality French tinsel) at the rear of the fly, run your thread to the front near the hook return, and then wrap the tinsel in a single layer making sure the turns of tinsel touch each other at the edge (NOTE: THE TURNS DON'T OVERLAP, THEY LIE SIDE-BY-SIDE).

4) Your head has a bit too much thread making it a bit too long. The way to use less thread at the head of the fly, is to force yourself to never use more than 3 turns of thread to tie in any material.

Here is how to tie a small head while keeping the fly strong for fishing:

a) At the head, after you tie in each wing and have the wings locked into place with the 2 tight turns of thread mentioned in #2, cut the stems off as close to the thread as you can get without cutting the thread holding them in place (don't forget to hold onto the wings with your other hand as you cut the stems to keep them from being disorted or moving on you).

b) After the stems are cut off, put a drop of a flexible tying cement (brand doesn't matter, all that is important is that it remains flexible when dry- I use Flexament only because it is readily available) on the thread and wing butts.

c) Whip finish over the wet flexible cement, which will cover up the rest of the wing stubs, finish forming the head, and when the cement dries, you will have an extremely strong fly with a small head.

Hope these help.

P.S. Mike another thing you can do is contact halcyon and get access to his excellent photo sequence with written directions tying tutorial on tying Glasso speys. He asked me for input on it and incorporated my suggestions into it. It is the best I've ever seen.

Last edited by flytyer; 08-01-2009 at 04:47 PM. Reason: Ad the P.S.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2009, 04:44 PM
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Just to add a bit to what FLYTYER mentioned above about the wing mounting. By mounting as Syd Glasso did you can get the wings to sit lower along the body more like a traditional Spey fly. Additionally, by bringing the wings down around the hook shank a bit you can tie the wings in, in front of the throat hackle tie off thread, on one layer of thread covering the hook shank allowing for a much smaller head to be formed more easily due to the base of the wings hiding the throat hackle tie off point.

I have so often met ardent anglers throwing flies of such wondrous deformity,... (Lt.-Col. John Henry Hale, 1863 - 1950)
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2009, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishmhard View Post
Maybe a turn of yellow or red guini for the collar, shorten up the wing a touch, but realy, damn nice just the way it is Good work- Bet the fish dig it!
What number mustad hook is that ?? That's a nice looking hook. Have you used that perticular mustad much? Any opinion on it's performance?
Seen FT's comments above....needs work, so for the next tie.....

The mustad is #80500 BL, and a standard wire, Limerick bend, hook - not too dissimilar to the Partridge CS2 or CS11/3

And yes, it's a good hook in performance in hooking & landing fish!

Mike

If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles (spey rods). Doug Larson

Take only photographs, retain only memories, leave only a good impression of yourself, perhaps just footprints.

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2009, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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Many thanks...

FT & Halcyon....

I just plain forgot(!) about the underbody tinsel (& its effects) - could one also use white floss under the yellow in order to maintain colour when wet? - just a slight musing by myself -

I also must've missed out of the specifics of the wing tie in method, but I do now recall that I had seen it as separate tie ins.

I can also see that not only will the tented wing give a better looking wing (lower profile on body), the tenting will alow the fly to have more lift in the water - whereas my knife-edge efforts may be much less 'swimable'!

Points taken about the thread wraps!

Got some work to do for the next lot of ties....thinking of something to really fish with also!

Appreciated!

Mike

If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles (spey rods). Doug Larson

Take only photographs, retain only memories, leave only a good impression of yourself, perhaps just footprints.

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2009, 05:17 PM
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Speyducer,
Is the Mustad 80500BL hook series still available? My understanding was that it had been discontinued several years ago. The new Mustad SL53UBL series is a lovely copy of the now discontinued Partridge code N which works well for Glasso style Spey flies. And the very beautifully done Daiichi 2271, a copy of the down eye Rational hook series of Pryce-Tannatt, also makes a lovely Glasso style Spey fly foundation.

I have so often met ardent anglers throwing flies of such wondrous deformity,... (Lt.-Col. John Henry Hale, 1863 - 1950)
Semper pesco
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2009, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
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I don't know if the 80500bl's are gone, but I still have several full packs left to tie on.

Thanks for the alternative suggestions when these run out, though!

Mike

If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles (spey rods). Doug Larson

Take only photographs, retain only memories, leave only a good impression of yourself, perhaps just footprints.

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2009, 05:37 PM
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Mike...

NICE!! Thanks for posting the step by step...Up until now, I never knew that you got that effect on the hackle by pinching it down. I thought you got it that way by reverse wrapping thru it with a tinsel or wire rib.

Sweet, one more thing added to the arsenal...Thanks!

Skeet
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-03-2015, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flytyer View Post
2) The wing is also not correct in its orientation. Your wing is tied in as a knife edge, vertical wing. Glasso tied his wings so the hackle tips tented over the body. If you use the site's search function and look for hackle tip spey wings, you will find detailed, step-by-step instructions on how to do this that I've posted before. In short, you need to tie the right and left wings in separately and make sure the top of each wing is even with the center of the body and the bottom of each wing is canted off to the side of the hook the wing is tied in on. TIP: to help get the wing to "tent" or cant properly, tie it in by catching a few of the hackle barbs with you thread at the tie-in point instead of by the bare stem. Plus, only use 2 turns of thread to tie in each side of the wing so you can make adjustments to the wing length and orientation if needed. Then after any adjustments are made, lock it is place with 2 rather tight turns of thread.
There is some interesting reading in Shewey's new book regarding this. He claims there is no evidence that Glasso tented his wings, and Wentworth and Rose state with certainty that Glasso's wings were laid low against the body in knife-edge fashion. In addition, flies gifted to McNeese by Glasso did not have tented wings.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-03-2015, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Zonky View Post
There is some interesting reading in Shewey's new book regarding this. He claims there is no evidence that Glasso tented his wings, and Wentworth and Rose state with certainty that Glasso's wings were laid low against the body in knife-edge fashion. In addition, flies gifted to McNeese by Glasso did not have tented wings.
From the reading I've done I'd have to agree with this. What is clear is that Glasso didn't write much about his fly tying or steelheading. His flies I've seen photos of are impossible to tell whether the wings are tented or not. Regardless, his trademark seemed to be that his wing sets were low to the shank.
Veverka's book clearly shows an Orange Heron tied w the wings being tented so I think the jury's still out.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-04-2015, 01:42 AM
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Lots of good advice given to you from others, ive got nothing to add.

I LOVE that hook. Glasso style flies are some of the FEW flies i like using aj's for, but this hook looks even better with it IMO.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-04-2015, 01:36 PM
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Thanks

Mike.......thanks for sharing your SBS,,,,,I enjoyed !!
Thanks a lot !!





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