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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-22-2007, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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pain in the butt...

is there any trick to tying in the upper wing part of a golden pheasent wing case, i cant get it no matter what i try

fishing is my life...i think about it non stop, and it never bores me
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-22-2007, 10:14 PM
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Not sure exactly what you may be talking about, maybe a specific pattern you are tying and the problem you with are having with the feathers would help. What I do to help set feathers where I want them (golden pheasant as well as others) Is to use a pair of needle nose pliers and flatten the rachis of the feather at the tie in point. Keeps the feathers from rolling on you. A couple of medium to lose wraps a little hand manipulation to get em just right then tighter wraps to set em in. Hope this helps. Kevin
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-22-2007, 11:01 PM Thread Starter
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im kinda just makin stuff right now, but cant get this part about right, im only having problems with the top part as of now, whenever i try to tie it down it wants to lie flat and not go with the curve of the wings like its doing in this durn well tied fly

fishing is my life...i think about it non stop, and it never bores me
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-23-2007, 12:03 AM
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Oh Your talking the fancies here. The crests can be difficult. Im no expert on Atlantic salmon flies but have tried a few. I use the crests alot for tails on steelhead flies. You kind of have to pick a crest that matches your wing curve somewhat. Then hold the crest up to the fly and determine at what point you want your tie in point to be. Then strip the fibers away up to that point. Then use pliers to bend the rachis to the right angle and curve so it lays flat on your head area but follows the curve of the wing. Did I lose you yet. Its kind of hard to explain and Im no expert. If you go to the fly tying forum website and look under classic and artistic salmon tying and do a search for golden pheasant crests or toppings Im sure you will find a much better explanation and probably pictures, there may even be a pinned topic on the subject. I just looked real quick and didnt see a pinned topic but check out tying the woody by Bud Guidrey in the pinned articles section. If you havent checked out that site you should some of the tops in tying the fancies are on there and TONS of info. I Know if you search around on the web you will surely find a step by step with pictures of what I am trying to explain. Good luck and stick with it. Kevin
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-23-2007, 04:28 AM
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Tricks...

If it is the topping (golden pheasant crest/topping) that you are tying in to finish off the fly, I would agree that creasing the base of the stem of the topping at the point you will be tying it in does work, and then bending the rest of the topping upwards at the crease. Once you have made that crease, it is easy to make the final adjustments to how the topping lies over the rest of the built wing.

This method has worked for me for those Atlantic salmon flies where I have used the GP topping.

Mike

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-23-2007, 08:05 AM Thread Starter
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thanks guys, i get what yer all sayin, a couple more hours for one fly and i might just post one

fishing is my life...i think about it non stop, and it never bores me
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-09-2007, 08:18 AM
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The Key with crests is finding a crest that is the exact length for the size of fly. I tie the majority of my classics in hand (no vise) as of lately. So, to me, the total matching of topping and tail gets thrown out the window. If you select a crest that is the right length, you can then pull the little "gimp" feather at the base of the crest off. It is a very tiny, greyish secondary feather right at the base of the crest feather. This will allow for a very thin, flexible area that takes no manipulation to get to sit right. So, what I'm saying is that you really don't even need to crimp the feather. That's the key for me. Crests the correct length make life a whole lot easier. Here's an example of a William Blacker Spring Fly I tied a little while ago with multiple crest using the above mentioned method. The other is a Major from Tolfrey and the Last is a Golden Judge from the fishing Gazette. All of these were tied in hand, without tools and using the above mentioned method. Regards, Jamie Daly
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-10-2007, 10:20 AM
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GP toppings and tails

This method has served me well, I think I learned it from Poul Jorgensen's book years ago, not sure.

1. Select GP feathers of approximate length, and soak in warm water

2. Find a bottle, vial or such with an outside radius of approximate curvature you need. (I don't tie flies larger than #2, and find that plastic prescription vials in various sizes work fine, larger for wing toppings, smaller for tails- i usually do a bunch at a time)

3. carefully lay out the wet feathers on the side of the bottle/vial, and allow to dry.

When dry, the feathers will be a perfect copy of the radius of the vial. Then hold the crest in position on the fly, locate the tie-in point, and firmly nick the stem with your thumbnail. I usually then flatten the stem up to that point with small duckbill pliers. If further adjustment of the curvature is needed, gentle thumbnail nicks and a bit of persuasion will usually do it. Then tie 'er in,,,

Good Luck, Hope this helps!

macspey
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-10-2007, 05:17 PM
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Something else you don't want to do is try and tie the GP topping with a crest feather from the side of the crest because the raches curve to either the left or right (depends on which side of the crest) and there is nothing you can really do about it. Toppings should be tied from the center location crest feathers, whether you are tying a large fly using the largest feathers or a tail on a small fly using the smaller ones.

Crimping and bending the creast feather upward some (as mentioned and described Speyducer and nrthcsteel) is something that has been described, written about, and done for well over 150 years. You can use either a pair of small, flat jawed, needle-nosed pliers (make sure they are flat jawed with no serations) like you would use for debarbing hooks or you thumbnail to make the crimp. The feather is bend as the crimp is being put into it.

You can also adjust the way the crest feather lies on the wing by putting very slight crimps (this means very small, be gentle if you do this) into either the bottom or top side of it before it is tied in (it can't be done after it is tied in unless you want to ruin a feather and have to start over with a new crest feather) to alter the curve of the feather to more closely match that of the wing.

Also, after you tie in the topping, you must hold the wing and topping with your left thumb and forefinger as you trim the butt or it will move and distort the placement of the crest feather, and ruin the way it lies in the process.

You really ought to do yourself a favor and get Alcott's book BUILDING SALMON CLASSIC FLIES and Radincinch's DVD on tying classic salmon flies. Each of these will show you in very clear step-by-step detail how to do the various things required in tying the classic feather wings. Poul Jorgesen's book on Atlantic Salmon Flies is another good, althoug not a good as Alcott's, book on classic salmon fly tying techniques.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Daly View Post
The Key with crests is finding a crest that is the exact length for the size of fly. I tie the majority of my classics in hand (no vise) as of lately. So, to me, the total matching of topping and tail gets thrown out the window. If you select a crest that is the right length, you can then pull the little "gimp" feather at the base of the crest off. It is a very tiny, greyish secondary feather right at the base of the crest feather. This will allow for a very thin, flexible area that takes no manipulation to get to sit right. So, what I'm saying is that you really don't even need to crimp the feather. That's the key for me. Crests the correct length make life a whole lot easier. Here's an example of a William Blacker Spring Fly I tied a little while ago with multiple crest using the above mentioned method. The other is a Major from Tolfrey and the Last is a Golden Judge from the fishing Gazette. All of these were tied in hand, without tools and using the above mentioned method. Regards, Jamie Daly
Hi Jamie.

I thought I would post here. The fly you hand tied without vise arrived the other day.....BEAUTIFUL, and thanks for the mount; Nice surprise.

You are one talented tier. I have been tying since I was 7 yrs old and now I am 48. Tying without the aid of a vise is something I have yet to try.....but you have inspired me to another level. Very cool thanks very much.

When I perfect my hook making I will send you a couple to try tying on. A hand made hook on a truely hand tied fly would be too cool.

Best regards

FRSCA

Nor-Vise Prostaff

Daiichi hooks Prostaff
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