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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
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a moral dilemma

So I have a bit of a situation that I've been debating how best to handle, and I thought that some of you may have some good insight or suggestions. So the short version is that my father in law has asked to purchase 10 of my "more artistic" flies, intending to frame a couple and use a couple as gifts. While I'm obviously happy that he enjoys them to that level, it does put me in a bit of a thorny spot as far as "selling" them to him. He has asked for a quote, knowing just how wildly expensive some classic flies can be (from more experienced, and well known tiers of course).

Part of me feels that I can't really see charging him any substantial sum of money, and I really would prefer to simply give him some of my flies. On the other hand 10 flies of that type is a fair bit of time, materials, and certainly effort on my part. Money is always tight, and I sometimes cringe at just how much $$$ I spend on this crazy hobby. For every 1 good one that I would feel could merit making the cut, there would likely be 5-10 flies that just weren't quite up to standard... for any myriad of reasons. Which makes me more inclined to charge something for the flies. Just having a hard time coming up with a cash amount that would feel right.

Options would range from simply covering the costs of some of the more pricey materials, to putting a price that reflects, to some degree at least, the level of pride that I feel in the flies. I think that I've posted enough of some of my better flies that many of you have an idea of what I am capable of producing; which is to say, while far from the level of some of the more respected tiers here I do feel that I create a few which have some real heart and soul in them and every now and then something special comes off the vise.

I thought I might post my sentiments here, in part, because I would imagine that many of you may have already faced similar situations. I also have tremendous respect for the artistic talents, technical skills, knowledge, and experience level of so many of you here. I would value your thoughts and/or personal experiences ...
Thanks,
JB
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 12:25 PM
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Happy Wife

Happy Husband a no brainer to me

When she is telling you how wonderful and thpughtful you are hit her up for that dream trip or new piece of kit

I think I fish, in part, because it’s an anti-social, bohemian business that, when gone about properly, puts you forever outside the mainstream culture without actually landing you in an institution. –John Gierach

Mercury
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 12:36 PM
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I would look at this as family and charge for the materials and labor for what you are doing. He seems like a bright man and knows what it takes to make one of these beautiful creations and knows that they are not free.

Charge what you put into the project and no more, just cover your time and material. Sit down and write out which each fly consists of material wise then add your time in at a reasonable rate.

He knows the value of time and material and charging him any less would be an insult.

My 2 cents your bill is in the mail.

KC
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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Good stuff guys.
Back Eddy, could not agree more with the happy wife=happy husband philosophy on life. Live that way every day, and it has kept my marriage intact for a dozen years already. Not sure how I ever snared her in the first place, but I'm keeping her. Lucky, in this case she's pretty happy just that her dad wants some of my flies. She ties a bit too, and has seen the sweat on my brow, the trembling hands, heard the "oh no, NO, NOOOOOO!" more than a few times... she gets it completely.

KC, thanks, and "the check's in the mail" $.02 it is
JB
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 01:00 PM
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Sorry to trample on any one's conception of spinning fluff...however, it's not (A)rt...though certainly artisanal...

Never do business with family man, quite simply, enough to be asked and that they would consider your flies frame-worthy. What's a few flies between family??? You're the tier...tie more...and likely better ones with repetition.

They're only tools J...

Cheers
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 01:03 PM
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Pick a financial need of comparable value of which both you and your wife have. Tell your father-in-law you don’t want to charge him for the flies but my wife and I could really use a (whatever the need is). Your father-in-law will think what a selfless and gallant son-in-law I have and your wife will love you more than ever. Win-win.

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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 01:08 PM
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Really?

I'm with Back Eddy, Chase, and Marty.

Happy Wife = Happy Life.

Plus it's just a good thing to do.

Have him buy a good bottle of single malt that you two can share when you give him the critters. I think you'll always wonder whether or not you should have taken the money, but if you gift them to him, you'll never regret it. And how much are we really talking about? Peanuts in the long run.

sláinte mhaith

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it is not the same river, and he is not the same man".--Heraclitus
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 01:10 PM
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You could mention that a [bottle of] Lagavulin always assists with the creative thought process.........

Regards, Tyke.
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbudesa View Post
I'm with Back Eddy, Chase, and Marty.

Happy Wife = Happy Life.

Plus it's just a good thing to do.

Have him buy a good bottle of single malt that you two can share when you give him the critters.

sláinte mhaith
Wow - identical thought process in operation as I was typing!

Tyke.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 01:11 PM
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I've given my father-in-law (and mother-in-law, together) several framed and matted photographs that I've produced (I do everything except make the paper - I do my own sensitizing expect for color - from capture to printing - analog in a darkroom - to mounting, matting and framing). I figure without considering the artistic side I've invested about $200 per picture. Given where I'm at with my photography (or more accurately where I'm not), I could probably get $300-$500 for one of my prints, framed, etc. I had one (donated) sell at an auction for $400.
In return, I've received a lot of things from him (& her), a lot that doesn't even include any "thing."
Just give it to him with a smile and gratitude that he sees and appreciates your talent. You can sell to a lot of other people if needed.

For me, the glass is neither half-empty nor half-full, but rather twice as big as it needs to be.
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 01:14 PM
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I'd have him make an investment into hooks and materials for you. You can tie him flies, I'm sure you have the hooks and materials, and as payment, he can help replenish the supply, maybe a few packls of hooks, a turkey tail, peacock, that sort of thing.
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 01:15 PM Thread Starter
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I like the trade idea, especially a good single malt! I like that
Just one thing that I should clarify on the "happy wife" side of things; she's more in favor of some form of compensation that I am truth be told. Though I think she'll be happy either way. She's glad that her father wants to display, and to gift some of her husbands flies, and that's about it I think.

Thanks for the feedback guys, do appreciate it
JB
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 01:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by middlecalf View Post
I've given my father-in-law (and mother-in-law, together) several framed and matted photographs that I've produced (I do everything except make the paper - I do my own sensitizing expect for color - from capture to printing - analog in a darkroom - to mounting, matting and framing). I figure without considering the artistic side I've invested about $200 per picture. Given where I'm at with my photography (or more accurately where I'm not), I could probably get $300-$500 for one of my prints, framed, etc. I had one (donated) sell at an auction for $400.
In return, I've received a lot of things from him (& her), a lot that doesn't even include any "thing."
Just give it to him with a smile and gratitude that he sees and appreciates your talent. You can sell to a lot of other people if needed.
I have done this as well, and I have given him one of my nicer flies tied to date (have given plenty of others away to lots of others as well of course, some nice some purely functional). Which is really more the way I would prefer to do things. That fly that I gifted him may well have been the spark of his idea to "place an order" for 10. I think that's the part that changes things a little for me. It would be much much simpler if it were just a gift here and there if/when I came up with something that I felt like sharing.
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 01:38 PM
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Based on below Leave all Negotions up to her

Sounds like a possible set up lose lose





Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
I like the trade idea, especially a good single malt! I like that
Just one thing that I should clarify on the "happy wife" side of things; she's more in favor of some form of compensation that I am truth be told. Though I think she'll be happy either way. She's glad that her father wants to display, and to gift some of her husbands flies, and that's about it I think.

Thanks for the feedback guys, do appreciate it
JB

I think I fish, in part, because it’s an anti-social, bohemian business that, when gone about properly, puts you forever outside the mainstream culture without actually landing you in an institution. –John Gierach

Mercury
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 02:08 PM
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Personally, I'd just give him the flies. Maybe something cool will come from him in return, if he's any kind of a guy. If not, well, you've learned something about him.
I'm charging 3 cents for my opinions today. sorry.
Gary
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