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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gt05254 View Post
Personally, I'd just give him the flies. Maybe something cool will come from him in return, if he's any kind of a guy. If not, well, you've learned something about him.
I'm charging 3 cents for my opinions today. sorry.
Gary
This is the best thing to do, by far. I never charged anyone for flies, although mine may not be a schmookler I do ok, I mostly look at it as I am forever etched in someone else's life in some form or another, weather hanging on their wall or swinging into the lips of fish. I had a guy ask me to tie him up a few dozen trout flies for money, I said no charge. He layer offered to buy me tying tools and I said hell to the yeah!

Some people always try to ice skate up hill...
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 04:24 PM
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Go for the Scotch!!

More importantly, go with your gut feeling! You, more than anyone, know who you are dealing with.

Myself, having freely given away flies, hooks, and other materials, I would just make a gift of it!

While we all know that a lot of time, effort, and soul go into our creations, they are after all, just "Hooks, Feathers, and Floss".

I hope all goes well- you'll make the right decision!!

-Bill
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 04:45 PM
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I've tied for $$, donated to auctions, and gifted flies. I think the most satisfaction I receive is when I give my flies away; especially to family or to folks having tough days out fishing. Money is just money; nice to have, but not something you will remember as you age. The wonderful thing about giving flies (to me) is that I have control over the creative process. And I must admit that it is hard to put a value on smiles, new friends, and looks of gratitude when I am able to watch someone catch a fish on my flies, or really appreciate them. Those things you will always remember.

The talent I see displayed every day on this site is hard to describe; simply stated, beyond fantastic!

You are indeed very lucky to have a wife who shares your passion and appreciates the amount of work that goes into your flies. I would give them to your father-in-law with the understanding that they will come as you are able to make them. That way, there is no pressure on you. One or two at a time. Very nice to have family that thinks enough of your work to offer to purchase it. But exchange of dollars will (to some extent) turn the project into a job. I have a hunch that returns from gifting will be far better than dollars and cents.

"There will always be days when the fishing is better than ones most optimistic forecast, others when it is far worse. *Either is a gain over just staying home."

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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 04:49 PM
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I give away lots of flies and materials to peeps I've never even met. Family.... Fork it over, you'll be glad you did.
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
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More thanks guys. I think that most of you have been more or less getting at what my gut response was too: that I am not in this to make any money, and that I don't feel quite right selling flies to my father in law. If my posts didn't convey it, let me be clear that I am in complete agreement with all of you about giving flies freely.
There is no dilemma whatsoever on tying some flies as a gift for him and others, but I don't think this is what he is looking for. I think KC raised a very good point, and that's the bit that has been the trickiest for me to sort. While I don't think he would exactly be "insulted" if I were to refuse any money for the flies, a big part of this is clearly his attempt to be supportive of my hobby, and encourage further development. He may also be in part looking to do something nice for the box of trout flies, and the 3wt trout rod I just built him for his birthday just recently (which came out great if I do say so myself!).

I do think he'd feel bad if it seemed in any way that his kind and generous notion were turned around into something of an obligation or a burden (real or perceived). Given that I know he's expecting to pay probably far more than I would ever feel comfortable accepting I do think that it would be best for me to accept something. I do like the scotch idea, though honestly I'm more inclined to simply quote him something just to cover the costs of my materials (or even perhaps just some new materials). Certainly much less than what he had in mind, and probably less than a good bottle of scotch!
JB
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post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2015, 05:58 PM
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I'd give them to him gratis - I suspect he has in the past and will in the future give you and your wife lots of wonderful gifts, some tangible and many intangible. I guess personally years down the road if I were going to regret anything, I'd much rather feel like I gave more than I got in return than worry about whether or not I should have accepted some payment from my father in law ... My 2 cents, no doubt worth less than that!
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post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-30-2015, 12:43 AM
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I would give them to him as a gift. He sounds like a great father-in-law, and as such deserves to be honored as such with them as a gift. Your wife will love it, he will be happy to be honored with the gift, and you will get much reward and personal satisfaction from doing so.

Then when he tells others you tied them (I'm certain he will brag about you having tied them for him) you will very likely get requests from non-family members to tie some for them. That is when to charge a reasonable (meaning market value price) for them.

I've done this with my father, who is now 88 years old. Whenever he needs flies for his trout fishing, I tie him them by the dozen of the same fly and size. And I've always refused payment from him. He has repaid my many times over is ways large and small. Plus, he feels honored by my gifts. Your father-in-law will too.
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post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-30-2015, 03:29 AM
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some advice without the hugs

a few things with regard to someone who has already done it/is doing it:

I would have referred him to someone else... like radencich.
and then when he got back to you all aghast you could talk his numbers.

there's another side to the coin... perhaps he wants to give you some money.
as I get older it becomes less precious once everything else has been looked after...
I also like to pay what I owe for what I've ordered.
it really is as simple as that... it makes me feel good to pay the right money for what I have. if I receive something cheap or free (other than heirlooms) that's how it will be looked at in future.

anyway... would you fill teeth with free gold had you been a dentist?
...a fortnights worth a free legal advice as a lawyer?
(and yes, I know you don't tie flies for a crust)

I would have given him a quote like he asked. business is business.
see? this is a business dilemma.
the moral dilemma is solely your issue... an issue which you'd already answered the moment you recognised it as moral.

folk who ask you for a quote without any intention of buying are 'tire kickers'.
avoid these people.

disclaimer: I've flogged flies for hundreds of dollars... and if you didn't want them, I didn't care. if you thought they were overpriced... again, it mattered not.
but the worst thing I ever did was turn a hobby into (near enough free) labour.
the aggravation is not worth the minute of elation I receive once one is finished.
business remained business... basically a pain in the ass.

though I still tie them for commissions and charities I no longer enjoy tying flies. I look at it with the same zest I look at changing a dirty nappy; a necessity and nothing more.

cheers,
shawn

Shawn,

First off Iím not your mate.
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post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-30-2015, 09:14 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mitchaka2fish View Post
there's another side to the coin... perhaps he wants to give you some money.
as I get older it becomes less precious once everything else has been looked after...

I would have given him a quote like he asked. business is business.
see? this is a business dilemma.
the moral dilemma is solely your issue... an issue which you'd already answered the moment you recognised it as moral.

cheers,
shawn
Your post has some very good points Shawn. The fact is he most certainly does wish to give here, and most likely money seemed like the most direct and practical form he could think of. He's a practical sort of guy. That's been the thorniest part for me sorting this out.

You're also very correct about the "moral dilemma" being my own making. Never really was interested in going into business with my fly tying, it's challenging enough as is! I could have just sold him some flies at a reasonable cost, and I'm sure he would be happy with the arrangement but it would turn things into something I'm not quite comfortable with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutthroat1954 View Post
. I would give them to your father-in-law with the understanding that they will come as you are able to make them. That way, there is no pressure on you. One or two at a time. Very nice to have family that thinks enough of your work to offer to purchase it. But exchange of dollars will (to some extent) turn the project into a job.
Your idea here has been one that I've been toying with from the beginning. The more I think about it, and the more comments I've read, the more this confirms my initial gut response. While kind and generous, I never really wanted "his business"; his order of flies shifted the context (inadvertently no doubt) to something not quite in line with my passion.

Your suggestion is probably the best of overall. I can still provide some colorful flies for him in due time, but not as a specific order, or on any specific timeline. It does take a lot of the pressure off me for sure.

I do believe I have a phone call to make today. Hopefully he will understand that I'm not really at a place in my tying to accept orders of that sort, but that I am happy to continue to share some of my rare gems that come off the vise.

Thanks for the feedback guys, it does help to solidify my thoughts on the matter.
JB
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