Spey Pages banner

How to swing flies for trout?

14K views 33 replies 20 participants last post by  bocast 
#1 ·
I've been swinging flies for trout for almost 2 seasons now, but I haven't been catching many fish, so I'm wondering what techniques you folks use when swinging flies for trout.

I fish wide rivers in western Montana. I am mostly using a 5ft T-8/5ft floating Mow tip.

I usually gently jig my spey rod up and down.

Randy
 
#4 ·
my thought would be try smaller wets, I know when I was swinging in MT my most successful flies were size 10-14 soft hackles. not that I didn't get some grabs with the bigger flies but the smaller flies seemed to produce better numbers for me.i also found that swinging multiple flies worked better then single flies. when I was streamer fishing I always switched to the 7wt single handed rod with a sinking tip and stripped streamers right next to under cut banks.
cheers
Gunnar
 
#5 ·
Swinging for trout

The past two years I dedicated to specifically swinging for trout on my local waters. I’ll share a couple general things I learned. Not all water is created equal for the swing. Not all fish take a swung fly. At certain times of the year fish are less interested in a swung fly. Certain stretches of river have fish that are more aggressive to the swing. My two flies of choice to swing, sculpin in olive or natural brown and caddis, dry or wet. Sink tip selection depends on water and fly but for the water I fish with a sculpin I use 10’ of T-11. I make two casts before I move. First cast is straight swing. Second cast I add movement. For caddis I use long mono leader or intermediate sinking tip. Straight swing to the reel with drag set light, like steelhead swing, so fish grabs and sets itself. Broken too many fish off setting the hook.
I’m no expert but I manage my fair share of trout on the swing. Sounds like you could get some good Montana info if you went to a fly shop and chatted with the bros. Or book a guided trip and tell them you want to learn how to swing for trout.

SL2
 
#6 ·
I use my 4wt two-hander on rivers just over the divide in N. ID. Keep in mind that these are cutthroat rivers and they go after anything with a little red! I fish my two-hander almost like my single-hand rods. I use small buggers and muddlers, along with soft hackles and wets. I often cast into faster water with the plan that the fly gets under tension and rises when it is coming through the seam into slower water. I also like swinging through riffles with streamers and muddlers.

I use a rage with a 10' trout poly, usually float or intermediate. I do not T anything. I esp like using my two-hander early in the year when flows are 4000-6000. Also, I do not use it all day. Usually early morning or mid-day. I am using single handers when there are bugs out, drys, wets, and soft hackles.

Get Dave Hughes book on soft hackles, wets, flymphs and how to fish them. I had the old edition and bought the new one this summer, and it is worth it to upgrade. He has great patterns but also a lot of advice on how to fish them. Steve Bird has a great web site on fishing for trout with soft hackles and two-handers, and he fishes big water! SOFT~HACKLE JOURNAL
 
#7 · (Edited)
I haven’t put in a lot of swing time in Montana, only in the summer, and only as a break from the dry fly fishing. But that said I was skeptical of the flies they were pushing in Craig for swinging on the Mo. They struck me as too big, but maybe they were for a different season. So maybe mix it up some with smaller flies. I think the soft hackle suggestion was a good one. I had a lot of luck with a “micro minnow” (pic below, maybe not the first thing people would try) which is a very small fly, but I got 3 the very fist time I tried one, stepping down a long run, including the biggest Rainbow I ever caught on the Mo by any method. I assume it looked like confused fry to them. For the very limited time and seasons I’ve been on the water swinging in MT I feel like my numbers have been very respectable and have caught both big rainbows and browns swinging.

Ironically, I have made several trips now on one of MY local trout spey spots, the lower Sacramento from Redding down to Red Bluff, and this is supposed to be certifiably quality trout spey water at times. Just apparently NOT the times I have tried. :( In fact a few of those days I would describe as some of my worst days of fishing of ANY kind for trout - so I feel your pain. This is supposed to be the ANTIDOTE to the austerity of winter Steelhead fishing for crying out loud! :chuckle:
 

Attachments

#16 ·
I've definitely found that on some days, swinging is just not the method that works. When water temps drop, I think swinging streamers can be very effective if done well. As far as wet flies, there are certain times they just don't work. Many times I've had great success early in the hatch swinging soft hackles, but often there comes a point in time when fish will switch to duns/adults almost exclusively, and at that point they will start to ignore the wets.

However, the fishing when you hit it right it can be faster fishing than you will ever find. A good caddis hatch (Hydropsyche species especially) brings some of the fastest action. I've had nights on the Mo and the Clark Fork where you will get multiple grabs per cast. If you miss one, keep swinging, and you'll get another hit. When they are into it, they are all in.
 
#8 ·
I can't speak to Montana waters, but here in Maine, I've had the best results on a two fly rig. The top fly is a large-ish streamer, often a sculpin imitation, but sometimes a smelt pattern (it is Maine :) ), tied on size 1-3 AJ's. Trailing off that as a dropper, I will use a plain old soft hackle: thread abdomen, hare's mask thorax, and a turn or two of partridge, in sizes 10-14. I'd probably tie and fish a few smaller ones if my advancing age and failing eyesight would let me. I don't do anything too fancy with lines and leaders. Just a floating Scandi head, 10 foot sinking poly leader (either 4 ips or 7, depending on the river and flow), and a bit of tippet. Takes on the streamer vs the soft hackle seem to be about 50/50, but my local streams are dominated by browns and have almost no rainbows to speak of.

And I'd second what Coug said; check out the Soft Hackle Journal. More inspiring fly patterns there than you can shake a stick at.
 
#9 ·
I haven't fished the MO, or Montana for that matter. Most of my trout swinging was smaller streams in the east, the streams in eastern Yellowstone, and some in OR.

That said, my single most productive fly has been a small sculpin (2 in-ish), usually fished on a sinking poly leader. Second would be soft hackels, fished in tandem. I don't fish blind so much as fish structure/holding lies, and more often than not use a Leisenring Lift approach, trying to set the fly up for the swing from the original cast placement, estimate of the drift/sink path- which may or may not involve some mending- and then to present the fly swinging through my target zone, with tension, possibly some lifting, and probably about half the time with imparted action.Action can be in the form of tip twitches, arm pumps, a wiggling of the rod hand (most often with soft hackles on the lift).

If I wanted to catch a ton of fish I'd be euro nymphing. It has zero appeal to me. The approach above is so much fun to me I've fished through several excellent hatches, fish rising all around, a dry fly rig on the bank, me happily swinging some fish on the small spey.
 
#10 ·
Stop swinging

Stop swinging. That's my advice.

Fishing for trout? Fish dries. Often, if not almost always. Mind you, I would personally prefer to take 2 trout on dry flies than 40+ trout on submerged flies.

If you insist on a submerged fly presentation, try one of the following:

+ cast up stream and high stick nymphs and other weighted wet flies. Use a yarn indicator if you are new to nymphing. Otherwise, do not bother.

+ Cast a good sized streamer/bucktail/large ugly wet fly to the bank/cover, mend downstream and strip like crazy. Strip fast as if you were targeting fast-moving saltwater fish.

+ both techniques should tempt larger fish than swung small wets. Both are seasonal and their success depends on relative water flows and temperature.
 
#11 ·
On my home river there are plenty of times where there is no surface action and swinging streamers is a productive and fun way to fish. I especially like fishing after dark, swinging streamers or mice patterns. Big browns are nocturnal. Just takes a while to get the hang of swinging at night, but if you pick a night with a full moon your eyes can get adjusted pretty quickly.
 
#13 ·
I swing for trout the exact same way I swing for steel.....down and across the faster the current the further downstream you cast. Presentation trumps fly when swinging but with that being said twitching, casting upstream and mend down then strip...whatever it all works lol.
It’s funny how the simple downstream swing is almost a lost art in the trout world of thingamabobbers etc ;)
 
#15 ·
I've been doing very well the past few days with soft hackles, with several large rainbows to hand. My current rod of choice for this is a Hydrogen 3wt. with a 225 Airflo Scandi and a simple mono leader.

My standard leader is the length of the rod. I make a dropper with about 4-6" of the tag end of my final blood knot. The dropper is 6lb. Maxima, the tippet is 5lb. Maxima which helps the dropper stand out from the leader. I usually put a brighter or flashier fly, like an orange partridge or traditional wet fly, on the dropper, and a more realistic fly, like a soft hackle pheasant tail or hare's ear on the end. In Montana we are limited to two flies, but back East we'd regularly use 3 flies. Usually #12-#14 for fly size here in Missoula, but I match the hatch and I've caught fish on #16 BWOs. I fish the heads of runs and tailouts, basically anywhere the fish could be spread out. Think about where you see fish breaking during a heavy hatch. I fish a bit of a greaseline style, casting slightly across, mending or stepping down (or both) and then following the flies across the river with my rod tip.

One trick I use that I learned from old wet fly men in Pennsylvania is I hold my rod tip high, with a 90 degree angle between my rod and my fly line. I believe this increases hook-ups, especially with smaller trout, because having a bit of give in the leader allows them to suck the fly in. I prefer 3 weights for this style of fishing. Generally 4 and 5 weight rods are too heavy for soft hackles in my opinion, but better for swinging bigger streamers as we get into the winter swinging season.
 

Attachments

#18 ·
Smaler Flies

When I first started going to MT I was using a two hand 5wt and that was too much most of the time. I found that a 4wt and smaller flies worked better for me on my trips east of the divide. I'm planning on a 3wt next trip.

I swing them the same way I swing for steelhead. When I skate the top like steelhead on dries I really like using a stimulator. The strike can be explosive. I use the same tapered leader I skate with for bead head soft hackles because they sink on their own.

Try a sinking poly to get the lighter soft hackles to swim at different depths and rise like emergers. Do not forget to let it hang down at the end. Thats when some of the best fish hit while I'm day dreaming about being lucky enough to fish Montana rivers. Good luck
 
#19 ·
When I first started going to MT I was using a two hand 5wt and that was too much most of the time. I found that a 4wt and smaller flies worked better for me on my trips east of the divide. I'm planning on a 3wt next trip.

I swing them the same way I swing for steelhead. When I skate the top like steelhead on dries I really like using a stimulator. The strike can be explosive. I use the same tapered leader I skate with for bead head soft hackles because they sink on their own.

Try a sinking poly to get the lighter soft hackles to swim at different depths and rise like emergers. Do not forget to let it hang down at the end. Thats when some of the best fish hit while I'm day dreaming about being lucky enough to fish Montana rivers. Good luck
When I first started trout spey fishing, I tried using my light steelhead stuff but it's just not suitable and it's not fun to fight fish either. First, if you use tippet that is lighter than 8lb with a 5wt (or even a 4wt) you will break a lot of fish off on the grab. This happened to me a lot before I realized that between the heavy grain weight of the line and the lack of give in the tip of the rod, there is not enough cushion for lighter tippets. The force of the grab is too much force all at once. I occasionally could hook a fish if I completely controlled the line with my hand, not using any rod tip.

When I went to the Echo fiberglass 4wt it was a game changer. The tip of that rod would protect even 5x. Now I'm into the graphite 3 wts. They are more than capable of doing 80-90% of your trout spey stuff, from smaller soft hackles to small/medium streamers and light tips. I got a 4wt just to use on the Mo when the wind is up and I'm tossing the Skagit and heavier tips in the winter, when the fish migrate to very slow, deep, almost unswingable water. As soon as it gets below 38-40 degrees, they will be gone from the "steelhead water."

Both a straight mono leader and the light polys do a great job of helping get the "rising nymph" effect. I've been very lightly weighting some too. Next year I'm thinking of just getting a 2 weight for my soft hackles.
 
#23 ·
I vary how I manipulate the fly. Sometimes I just slow swing it as you say with no movement at all, slowing it as much as possible, more of a butt first presentation. Another method I've had success with is what I call pulsing the fly: I pull about 1-2 ft of line in through my fingers, then allow the current to pull this length back out, see-sawing through the meat of the swing and especially the hang down. Trout will grab a fly pulsing in the hangdown. Usually fish will grab as you feed the line back into the swing. I like this action because I think it can make the fly "breathe" as it settles and I think it resembles an injured baitfish. Short strips or twitches with your finger can also provide movement. I try not to bob the rod tip.

With soft hackles, I usually don't move the flies much and just allow them to swing, using my sink on the set up to determine where the flies will activate. This is also where it pays to know the insect you are imitating, so that your fly imitates the hatching behavior of the insect.

With streamers, I try a variety of things until I find something that works. I pay attention to water temperatures. When it's very cold or there has been a very sudden or recent drop, I tend to move the fly very little and slow the swing more. When water is in the upper 40s and above, as with steelhead, I will sometimes use more broadside or more active presentations.
 
#24 ·
I got out yesterday on the Columbia, beautiful day, beautiful run, water was gin clear and trout were active. Of course I didn't catch any fish! A newbie always looking for tips.

Setup: Echo TR 6126, with a Rage Comapct 450gr. New line and it casted a lot better, not blowing anchors anymore. Using a 10ft poly leader intermediate with about 3-4ft of flouro tippet. Because I was focusing on casting craft opposed to catching, I held steady on a size 8 muddler minnow.

Setting: nice run, walking sped with some variation across the width, steady slope from shore, probably 20 deg. Fish surfacing about 30-40ft out, so did not need to cast a mile. My guess is the fish were in 6-8ft of water.

Method: Casted about 40-50 ft straight out, mended up stream (this right?), let it swing while maintaining tension, followed with rod tip. I started stripping once it swung in, but after reading above, maybe I should have let it swing? Also, sometimes as the line was being pulled by the current midswing, a let a little more running line out to increase the swing time while maintaining tension. After a few casts, I moved upstream a little and continued on.

A little frustrating as my buddy was catching fish on gear in the same water, and can't help but think due to the conditions that the fish must have seen the fly once or twice. So wondering a few things:

Should I have gotten deeper? (threw on a skagit head and sink tips?)
Different fly, maybe with some more weight? Diff pattern?
Different tip set up on the Rage to get a little deeper?
Am I doing something wrong with mending?

My understanding is that the fish, though rising, are still swimming/sitting on the bottom 1-2 ft of the river, so getting a fly in front of their faces is the best odds.
 
#25 ·
You said fish were rising. What were they feeding on? That's always my first question if I see fish that are active. If they are moving through the column for naturals, they should do the same for a fly. I would try to imitate the insect. That said, your rod is a bit heavy for soft hackles and you will probably break off fish on the grab. With that setup, the streamer is the way to go.

However, there's nothing wrong with fishing a streamer imitation through risers. It can be a good way to catch a larger fish, but usually not a good way to catch numbers of fish. A muddler imitates a baitfish most of the time (although can be a caddis in the case of steelhead). If your muddler is unweighted and you're only using an intermediate, the fly is probably swinging just a few inches below the surface. You don't necessarily need to be "on the stones" but I'd try a 3-6" per second poly leader next time. Cast across and slightly down. Mend line up behind the fly. The bigger the mend, the more time your tip will have to settle. I like to count so I have an idea of how deep I am. If it takes longer than 5 seconds to get half way through the column before the swing begins, consider a heavier tip or tip/fly combo. But as I said in my previous post, you have to experiment to find what works. If you know you're fishing through fish, change it up.

Also pay attention to your buddy. If he was getting them on a spinner, I'd try a Kreelex or other flashy minnow. If he was bouncing bait, well, that won't tell you much.
 
#26 ·
Thanks, makes sense to me. I do not have any soft hackles in my box right now, need to tie some up. No idea what they were feeding on, did not see anything hatching/flying around. I wish I pumped the throat of my buddy's catch. He was using a small gold/orange spoon, I didn't have anything that would've really matched that.

My rod is a little bit heavy for most trout situations, but many on the river use the same or heavier weight. I'll have to adjust set ups to make it work. If I win the lotto I'll look at a 4wt.

Okay, sounds like my swing method was not bad, maybe just a different tip set up. I had an itch to change to a med sinking tip, but just stayed the course to not waste time and keep practicing my cast.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KilgoreT
#27 ·
Try a full floater and try casting a little further downstream instead of 90 degrees. As suggested lol:wink2:
We’ve been cleaning up lately and now thru spring is the best fishing on the Columbia for the big ones. Covering as much water as possible is far more important than fly choice here and they have been rising on size 16-18 bwo or some variation but the bigger fish are chasing October caddis right now.
 

Attachments

#28 ·
Yeah, I was waiting for Bruce to chime in, as these are his fish! The Upper Columbia fish, especially the big ones, seem to act a lot more like steelhead, based on what he has shared with us via the interwebs. And willing to move to a surface-oriented fly most of the year it sounds like?

The dry line was still working down this way until a few days ago, but the bigger fish here are now more aggressive to streamers and hatching activity has really dropped off. It's currently below 0 C and snowing sideways. Last few days we've been fishing large winter steelhead flies, unweighted, on a medium poly. Basically a baby brown imitation. My buddy just got his PB brown, a giant around 25" and I had one run me into my backing Sunday night. Everywhere is different!
 

Attachments

#31 ·
The thaw this weekend (it's still October!) will be advantageous for a final big push of end of season chores ... and swinging some flies for the aggressive fish. At least I hope so.

I haven't stung a big fall brown trout yet. I've been singularly focused on the spey rod and swinging flies this month and my catching is paying the price. It'll happen. I'm not nymphing this year!
 
#32 ·
Think outside the box with your trout spey rod. Swinging is fun and productive, but traditional nymphing (upstream with or without an indicator) and fishing a dry the same way -- both are magic because you can reach water that's unreachable or unmanageable (in terms of mending) with a single-hander. Upstream with a trout spey makes for a more challenging hook set, but innovation is the name of the game for this newish type of trout fishing ;-} ps: I'm on the Yellowstone/Madison rivers.
 
#33 ·
Randy for the jigging presentation you might try a floating tip and little bit longer leader (or a slower sinking tip), along with a bugger/streamer that has weight near the front like a bead, cone or eyes. With the fly diving and your tip staying closer to the surface when you jig it should give you a nice rise and drop action (trout usually will take on the drop). Otherwise your 5' MOW and a more horizontal fly design should be well suited for a straight swing which can also be effective at times and places, you'll just have to experiment.

Generally I'll use more jig or broadside strip retrieve type stuff in slower flows and a straight slow swing with fast tip in heavier flows.

I love swinging streamers but have to tie my expectations to the conditions I'm dealt on a given day. Many days I'm just hoping to find a single crazy streamer-eater. Other days I might expect a couple grabs/hr based on past experience but you never know for sure when that window of opportunity may come.

Also browns can be extremely structure oriented and often very close to the bank so you may need to adjust your presentation accordingly.

Tyson
 
  • Like
Reactions: KilgoreT
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top