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sinking line advice sought: whats the latest trend

8K views 22 replies 16 participants last post by  bocast 
#1 ·
Hi Guys,

Ive gotta admit---- have fallen out of touch with the latest advancements in gear.

Situation: any new sinking lines / heads out there suitable for great lakes rivers; mostly in MI?

Its for anew rod i picked up.---a sage ONE 8116-4 switch--- wondering whats new and exciting out there suitable for dredging great lakes kings. (I actually use modest to smallish unweighted flys if that matters).

Any recommendations and first hand experience with the latest in depth charge integrated lines or heads would help.

Gonna start poking around this weekend.

Thanks!
 
#2 ·
Airflo Fist heads are incredible! Steve Godshall also makes full sinking skagit lines as well, but that would be for super deep and super fast like the St. Mary’s rapids.

Honestly, the skagit fist head casts so beautifully, and you don’t really need much more than 12’ of T-14 for really deep spots because it just gets down and stays there. It gets to deep though for anything under 4-5ft, and you have to cast full sinking tips like straight T-tips. No MOW tips or FLO tips because it integrates right into a sink tip type 3 for the last 8ft of the head.

I personally think an all around ‘best’ head for winter steel and Chinook on the GL is the pre FIST, Skagit Compact Intermediate Head Airflo had. Because it only transitions to an intermediate section, you can use a wider range of IMOW or Flo tips with it covering a lot of different water types we encounter on the Great Lakes. You can find them on eBay for $30, and they cast just as well as the FIST heads do. They literally toss anything you got

Tom Larimer originally designed that head for the Great Lakes

Hope this helps
 
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#3 ·
Agree with Yooper about the Airflo Skagit FIST head.

Where in the past I would be tempted to use a T-14 tip, in those locations I feel I can get away with a T-11 tip thanks to the FIST head. (the tips measure 12 to 14 feet long and are used on 12 1/2 to 13 foot 7/8 weight rods).

The only concern I have is that on a recent trip, after a couple days, the FIST head was squeaking through the guides. River-side line cleaning did improve things but did not last very long. Now that I am home, I will carefully wash the FIST head in soap and water and see what happens. I might have got sun screen on the head but I don't think so. I suspect the general filthy state of BC rivers is the culprit. ;-)

On the to-do list: procure and experiment with full-sinking scandi-like heads for applications in large lakes and the ocean.
 
#4 ·
I'd talk to Steve Godshall. Rumor has it there are some multi density scandis available that will swing slow and deep, particularly if you aren't throwing huge flies that require a skagit to launch.

That said, I've been fishing a Nextcast Zone, Floating/intermediate with 14 ft DC tips last couple winters. Great scandi feeling setup that can be single speyed, snake rolled or anything else, and will still carry as a large a fly as I want to throw.
 
#5 ·
#8 · (Edited)
i have both guideline 3d's and sa triple density lines . i like the guideline lines better for cast - ability , but they are hard to get stateside . the sa lines work just fine . medium to smaller flies work best for me . you will need to develop a method for pulling the lines up at the end of the swing . see henrik mortensson . i use 4/5 ' of fluoro tippet . also , when i first used them and wasn't used to them , i had my whole line wrap around a boulder and lost the entire head ! don't go to heavy or deep with them . remember that with a full sinker once the line is in the water there's no mending . i would also note that there was a link posted somewhere here on sp a while back where travis johnson talked about his clients using full sink lines and missing fish that were subsequently caught by clients using floating lines with tips . he felt that the sinking lines were going too deep . i use my lines for gl steelhead and sometimes smallies .
thanks , jim
 
#15 · (Edited)
Sinking lines get too deep! - - - - When your using the wrong one! ! ! ! or you've bought the one line and expect it to do all.Sink tips are no different here, use the wrong tip and you wont get results(or very rarely).
Tips are fine.polys. 15ft multi tips or tips of various T stuff, easily changed and you can buy a bucket full of them to stay flexible(if you so want to),however they are all influenced by the big fat floating Skagit line that you've used to get it out there!.Currents are frequently faster on the surface than down close to the bottom, the faster surface layer will often drag the floating Skagit line round quicker than the tip, pulling your flee round quicker and just possibly ruining your presentation.
What you all term "Scandi" heads come in all sinking rates from hover that will barely sink sub surface to hellish fast quick sinkers of 10 ips +.
If you don't want your flee on the bottom, then pick a tip or head that won't put it there, simple!.
Once a Scandi Head gets in and down, yes you cant really influence its swing other than to speed it up by handlining,however it will travel slower as there will be a lot more line down deep in the slower currents and very very little other than the running line that will influence its travelling on the surface,as its travelling slightly slower it will achieve more depth!.
One of the advantages of using polys. off full sinking heads, is that you have a degree of flexibility in utilising a poly that sink's the same or a bit faster than the line, allowing you to fine tune to suit the water/conditions.
As for "digging" the line out at the end of the swing, well a downstream roll cast initially will get the line up top, if the winds right a Double Spey will also do the trick or a slow rhythmic waggle of the rod tip after stripping in the running line as you raise the rod will also see yer flee pop up on top.
As ever horses for courses and all that, a little practice too.But to say it can't be done ?, er well go stand in the naughty corner because it can and its easy!.
I use both sink tips(15ft tips and polys.) and full sinking heads rather a lot, the trick is in picking the right one for the day and the water, to say one is better than the other is nonsense, don't limit yourself-keep your mind open.
My favourite way of fishing is a Hover/Inty line with a slow poly. for spring fish, gets about 18" deep and swings nice n slow when a rivers carrying a drop of snow melt and the fish are running.If a sunk line presentation is required,I'll frequently make up 2 rods, one with a dedicated full sinker, another with a proprietary multi tip line so I can chop n change to suit or look for the best return.
Just because there's a requirement to get down a bit,dosen't have to be down n dirty!
Yorkie.
 
#13 ·
Whether using a heavy tip or or full sinker, sunk lines are tough to lift sometimes. An easy remedy at the end of the swing is to slowly raise the rod tip and perform a down stream roll-cast. This will lift the entire head/tip/fly out of the water and re-position everything down stream in line and at the surface ready to execute the first step of your preferred cast.


Mike
 
#18 ·
i usually just draw the rod up and over my off shoulder and then rotate to cast , works most of the time . deeper sinkers are harder and require a roll or a "false cast " out in front of my casting shoulder . does that make sense ?
thanks , jim
 
#19 ·
Hello.. My early season fishing is done with sinker, the faster, the better. We´re talking FAST sinkers now, deep down. Last year I was using the FIST head, 600grain and 15´of T17. Good set up, but no more. The head handles like steel wire, and it´s not a sinker, it´s a sinktip. It´s even in the name, Floating-Intermediate-SinkTip. I got curious when RIO introduced the Game Changer this spring, in F/S1/S3/S5. I bought one in 600grain to compare. First , it doesn´t handle like steel wire, it handles like any line. Secondly, it´s sinking sections are longer, making it a better sinker. To me, a big step forwards. Carries the tip and heavy fly the same. I even had a brief email discussion with Mr. Gawesworth of RIO about any chance of a full sinker, like S1/S3/S5/S7 or so, but he said that, for the US market, it must have a floating rear end. A pity that you don´t need to fish so slow and/or deep, as myself, in North America... A 600grain full sinking Skagit head, mono shooting line, T17 or T20 and a handful of heavier flies would be a nice start for 2020. And yes, I´ve ordered from Mr. Godshall last year, but he could only do me a S4 head which I received and found good, but stretchy. When I cast, I hold at the chosen overhang, pull in four more pulls. Now you have a short line left in the water to place for PerryPoking. Raise the rod slowly, switch line up to surface and place your anchor. Sweep the rod downstream and release line to correct overhang, giving you the downstream loop below your tip. Wait and PerryPoke. This cumbersome ("cumbersome") procedure gives me and GR8LAKESFLYER Mike the constant quality in casting, and pleasure.. Yours borano20
 
#22 ·
F.I.S.T.: Float-Intermediate-SinkThree ?
Interesting experiences and I am also going into details. I am absolutely with you in criticism of the coating of the FIST. It’s too hard/stiff for colder conditions (exactly when I, like most others I guess, need to go deeper...) and it tends to be stiff like steel wire. Also the surface of the coating is too shiny and more „sticky“ plastic feel than other lines and takes up dirt very fast.
In warmer conditions it’s a superb line to cast. Indeed for me one of the best casting Skagit heads.

I use 80% Rio production lines to 20% Airflo production and there are also Rio lines that are not the luckiest in result. I think of the steel wire like lines in the Intermediate parts, for example labeled Nextcast (SF 13...) as a Rio production, or the own Rio Intermediate Exchangeable tips.

But for the OP:
It’s like with every other line: each one has it’s place and approach and there is not one for every situation.
There are also the Scandi lines as sinkers and I could highly recommend the Nextcast Multitip lines for sinking applications. For you, living over there in the US. Great casting lines and very versatile as a Double or TripleDensity line (including the exchangeable tips). Two different Belly’s and a set of different tips covers a lot of water depths.
Also as a Scandi line I could recommend the Rio SVT or SSVT.
For your short rod the shorter SSVT could be a very good starting point in versatility for upper water columns.
If more Skagit orientated, the Airflo Skagit Switch is a great option, better for your short rod compared to the Airflo Compact.
Yes, I would also like to have more short Belly’s with different sinking densities.

And when we talk about short rods/Switch rods:
There can be “too much sinker” and also too much length in it with most of the full sinkers.
Or am I the only one who is thinking like that and I am totally wrong, because you guys need shortest sticks combined with the heaviest and longest full sinkers for the Great Lakes territory?
 
#21 ·
I am all for the right length sink tip. Multiple density lines make my head hurt.

Used to use a SH rod with 30 ft. Hi D and mono for fast & deep runs. Still do when back cast room is available. When SA came out with sink tip lines, a weighted fly gave me the bottom with a much better drift & more hook-ups. Now Skagit with the right tip selection, as you say, and a set up roll after and down is all I need. Still use the SH rod & SA sink tip in summer to minimize splashing on smaller rivers and enable the steelhead to chase.
 
#23 ·
For the shallower spate tribs in Ohio the RIO iMOW tips work great. All intermediate or 7.5 ft.int with 2.5 ft sink work the best for me. The larger tribs up north would likely be great for a 5ft intermediate 5 ft sink iMOW or even a F/H/I Game changer head with iMOW tips. I use Light iMOWs for my 4 wt 11 ft trout Spey and Medium iMOW tips for my 7 wt Echo Glass Spey. Polyleaders also work but don't carry as much freight. If I decide to fish on top, a long leader and chunky gurgler work great without changing tips or head. My flies are unweighted or weighted with brass bead chain eyes. The Feenstra Inside Bender is an example, and a very productive fly at that.

Now that the Rio Game Changer F/H/I comes in a 350 grain, I may try it on the trout Spey when the flows are up. The F/H/I mends OK. I haven't tried the F/H/I/S Game changer as I don't need the depth.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 
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