If You Are New To This Style Of Fishing Maybe This Will Help You Out. - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-14-2015, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
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If You Are New To This Style Of Fishing Maybe This Will Help You Out.

Fishing / Controlling The Submerged Fly

[I wrote this thread for people on my home site that are just getting their feet wet with swinging flies so if it reads a bit strange that would be because I have edited out some content.]

Sooner or later I should gather everything I've written into the forum threads on streamer fishing and put them into a reference source thread. I'm not telling you that I am an expert, however I have been using streamers of the classic type for 35 years as my primary fishing flies. Prior to 1980 I dabbled with them and tied them but had no real focus on fishing them seriously. They were at that time part of the legend of fly fishing to me. By fall 1980 I had made my first trip to Maine to fish for Land Locked Atlantic Salmon and it was then that the affair between myself and all those pretty flies I'd been tying for years really blossomed. It took years, it took determination, and I enjoyed every minute of the process because I knew I was in pursuit of something everyone else was not. I had determined that I was going to fish with those fancy flies until I figured out how to catch fish with them consistently.

This started with a reply I made to a question about 'How to swing the fly; do you follow with the rod, do you mend & etc. So with no further preamble I'll copy the original Question and then get on with it.

When I fish streamers with my Spey rod should I be following the swing with the rod tip or not?

That is something many of us know almost instinctively because of the years of fishing but for a fellow new to all of this it could be a real puzzle.

After a fly has been cast into the flow there are a lot of things that one must train their mind and hands to do. A few of the control factors are current speed, depth, and whether or not you have a targeted zone where you expect there to be fish.

Think about the relationship between the rod tip (which represents the stationary terminus of the line. The fly represents the moving point of your action as it traveled down and comes across the current in its effort to come to a halt directly below the rod tip hanging in the current. All of the things that happen between when the fly lands and when it reaches the dangle straight bellow the rod tip are in the realm of control of the angler.

The mends either upstream or down are your means to control both the flies depth and its direction of travel to some extent. The position of the rod tip, your stationary point of the line to fly connection is your primary tool for controlling the speed of the flies course. The speed with which the fly travels can and will have an effect on the maximum and minimum depths obtainable given the waters speed. The mending is your way to counteract the varied current speeds and seams of current between you, the rod tip, and the fly which is moving but doing so in direct relationship to the mends and movement or lack there of in the rod tip.[End Quote]

What is printed above was the reply I began but then I realized that I was only scratching the surface so to say. I believe that the single greatest misconception people must deal with when they progress to using a 2 handed fly rod is that they must completely change the way they fish. What I am about to expand on is basic single hand fishing using a streamer fly. This is exactly how I have continued to fish in the wake of taking up a Spey rod. Let us assume that you have been using traditional North American fly casting & fishing techniques for an extended period of time here. By this I mean the single hand fly rod. The use of the Spey rod is simply your graduation to a more effective way to fish with a streamer type fly. The added length and the 2 handed grip make for control of the fly line and thus the fly much easier. Remember please that I do not use Skagit or full sinking lines as you read on. I believe that when using a very short shooting head you sacrifice your ability to control your fishing (the line and fly) to accommodate ease of casting. The braided or for that matter any running line you may have loaded behind the 'head' provides very poor mending and thus poor control over your fishing. Likewise a full sinking line leaves you at the mercy of the river once the line and fly have settled in and began their down stream trip. I am not saying that either of these lines don't catch fish but they do limit your ability to actively interact with the swing to a great extent. So let us focus on the use of a floating line with a head length of at least 45 feet as I continue please.

I made a crude drawing that I hope will aid in my ability to reference the act of controlling a cast after it has landed and sometimes just before the fly has landed.

I find it very handy to put the very first upstream mend into the floating line just as the cast is unfurling, right before the fly slaps the surface that is. This would be mend 'A'. Please don't confuse this with a 'Drop or Slack' cast because it is not. The mend is made as the bulk of the fly line has reached the surface and the leader is yet to turn completely over. It is at that precise moment that the wrist rolls creating a much larger circular motion in the rod tip and thus throwing the mend upstream. Depending on the length of line between rod tip and end of line, you will need varying amounts of power in that 'wrist roll' motion. The technique of doing this without a thought will be something you will at first need to focus on and remember to do, eventually it will become just part of your cast. Now why is this important you may wonder? Every motion of either pull or slack that you make to the line via the rod and rod tip are directly transferred to the sinking fly and leader. When you allow a cast to land - the fly to begin to sink & gain depth - and then remember, 'oh I should make a mend'; that mend, that pull on the terminal end of the fly line which is that sunken fly will jerk it back upstream and Toward the Surface. Since the whole concept of the streamer type fly is for it to get down in the water column and swim along like something that may be fun to eat, everything you do with that rod and line should be targeted at keeping the fly down and traveling through or toward the area you believe there to be a fish. Make sense? By training yourself to instantly put a generous upstream slack loop into every cast you avoid jerking that fly back up toward the surface by a foot or more. In the game of sunken streamers every second and inch of sink after the cast & fly have landed are critical. After all the deeper the better is the rule in most cases right. So there's something to begin with, if you already do this like a machine, good. If you don't then perhaps that'll be useful.

Now lets look at the smaller mend 'B' in that wonderful drawing of mine.

This or these depending on current speed & depth, this is a smaller effort at giving the fly more hang time / sink time. In the scenario I am describing here we are assuming that the target water lies somewhere to your 11: O clock if we consider straight across the channel as 12: O' clock, and the Dangle point which is at your 9. You can make as many upstream mends as seem appropriate but do remember the lesson about not jerking the fly back toward the surface when doing this. It is during these mends that you may or should be following the cast and swing of your fly with the rod tip. The follow comes natural because you will end up pointed right where you think that fly is at the end of each mend motion. You'll find that with rods between 13 and 15 foot in length it doesn't take much effort to make the floating line respond to a gentle flip of the rod / tip. Did I mention to be sure your line is clean and floating as high and dry as it can? I guess not and it's time, I have been using Glide from Loon Outdoors and it seems to do a good job. Having that line bobbing along like a cork makes all the other pieces come together much better. I'll follow this thread with another that explains what I use to sink my flies whether they are weighted or not. This system keeps my floating fly line on the surface better than anything else I ever tried. I have stayed the course since 1994 using some variation of this for sinking my flies. Control is one aspect but many people get lost in the valley of 'How To Get The Fly Down'. I'll post that article up real soon. Now where was I?

Looking again at the diagram that I have so finely crafted

We have now determined that we are indeed following the fly with the rod tip as it courses the stream or river. However we are following in relation to that series of light flips or the rod tip we're making to offer more time to sink to the fly and less drag from the current on the line between you - the rod tip and the fly. Good, we're keeping it down as best we can all things considered. During all this focus and control the fly will pass through your ten O' clock and advance through the 11 area. It is here you may want to consider the mends marked 'C'. These are down stream mends made ever so gently so as not to greatly disturb the swinging fly. They do however have an effect that we sometimes fail to consider. The downstream mend allows for a very slight pause in the flies movement followed by an acceleration in swim speed and a slight change of direction. The size or sharpness of radius put into the loop thrown into the downstream mend will alter the direction the fly is traveling. The fly will deviate from the rather wide down and across path it has been following in relation to your position and take a more lateral cross current path before returning to the radial swing. This cross current action is what was known as the Grease Line Technique. Remember you & the rod are the fulcrum point in this angler velocity exercise, everything else is moving much more than either of you. You do have the control tool in that rod and floating line if you learn to utilize them to their fullest degree. With each 'small' downstream mend the fly will seek to realign itself with the new radius you have created in the floating line. I have found over and over that this slight variation in speed and direction is the trigger for many a grabbed fly as I near that last portion of the swing.

Getting to the 'D' or Dangle point, that's what this has been leading up to. Everything you've done since you made that unconscious strong mend before the fly landed has been designed to slow the swing and to keep the fly in the water as long and as effectively as possible to this point. Let us not be hasty once the fly has reached point 'D' okay? When the fly has reached it's destination directly bellow your position without a bump that doesn't mean the cast is over, not by a long shot. Depending on the depth of the water directly downstream a curious but not sold fish may follow the fly from any point of its journey to the point of the dangle. Let's for the sake of finishing this discussion that the water straight down below 'you' in the diagram is at least 18" deep OK? Remember, don't be in a hurry if the water bellow is not so shallow that you'll get stuck. You are not done with fishing this cast.

Here's that work of art one more time;

Considering that the 'you' is you, when you look past your left shoulder you see there is a significant amount of water between the straight down dangle and shore. It never hurts to make at least a couple mend flips with your rod tip to your left and shore. These are the 'E' mends and I like to make them in both directions before I sweep up the line. E stands for extra fishing on a cast and if you flip a loop toward shore then one back toward the straight down dangle you'll see how the fly follows your leading loop. Be patient and allow the fly to make its course and not only might you get a bonus grab you'll get some fly to fly line reference material for further use. If there is a fish hanging just below your fly trying to figure out just what the heck it is this may be all it takes to get commitment and a grab. Whenever you are in fishy areas every cast should be played until you start feeling stupid about it. Another good habit is; while on the dangle release about a foot of line to allow the fly to drop straight down a bit. Then gently lift the rod tip to move back upstream. I have caught enough trout doing this that it is part of my cast at least 75% of the time.

The hookup; generally when a fish gives an honest effort to grab and escape with the fly anywhere between 11:00 and the dangle they will hook themselves. You feel the pull and all you need at that time is to lift making sure it's really there. At that point I like to keep tension with my free hand on the line and point directly at the fish. Tighten the line tension with the free / line hand pulling firmly back and lift that rod a little harder. In many cases that will finish the job and the fish is on solidly.

When you are using articulated flies or any pattern having a long tail being jumpy when you feel a tap will not lead to more hooked fish. Quite often it'll be less and you may very well spook them from even trying again because of your abrupt reaction to the tap or bump. Consistently hooking and holding trout or steelhead on a streamer fished as I have laid out here requires good nerves and self control. I have caught fish after feeling them tapping repeatedly on my swimming fly as many as 3 or more identical casts and swings. The fact that they finally got hooked alone is testament that I never flinched and struck back.

I will write a thread about hooking fish soon because there seems to be a lot of curiosity about how that goes. There's more to it than luck believe me. What we call the come back fish, one who follows again and again tapping and bumping but not hitting hard enough to become hooked could be an article on its own. Knowing how to judge where they go after a failed attempt to capture the fly is another part of the catching puzzle. Do I always catch fish? Well................. I can usually raise something unless they are just plain shut down so I actually believe my experiences could be useful to some folks.

I'll post this now and then find all the typos


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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-14-2015, 10:50 AM
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I don't have the time to read it all right now but based on our past discussions I want to say thank and it and is really nice to see you sharing you wealth of experience again.... To anyone that doesn't know Ard he has spent a lifetime perfecting the art of FISHING and fishing well, he makes a beautiful cast but for me the real beauty was watching him work his fly once it hit the water... I hope things are going well for you and the family and look forward to sharing a run again sometime...soon!
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-14-2015, 11:05 AM
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Ard...excellent read. Thanks for posting
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-22-2015, 11:18 AM
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Thanks for the very nice read and all you time for sharing. If you fine some extra time could you explain the Mend more? are you razing the rod up or back to get the mend? And also the dangle. thank bob
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-22-2015, 12:08 PM
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Very good read Ard. Concise, I would say. BTW your drawing is fine.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-22-2015, 02:51 PM
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Very helpful read Ard. I am really new to the two handed game and I find your techniques fascinating. Thanks for taking the time.

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-22-2015, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by seasearider View Post
Thanks for the very nice read and all you time for sharing. If you fine some extra time could you explain the Mend more? are you razing the rod up or back to get the mend? And also the dangle. thank bob
Hi Bob,

it's kinda hard to explain without showing you so I'll include a link to a short video. In the video I was casting a Scandi line with a 45' long belly so mending on really long casts was a bit difficult. I think you can see that the mending is done by making a rather small circular flip with the rod tip and a slight rise of the rod. With longer belly lines it becomes easier to control the line but what you will see me trying to do is simply to keep the fly from being dragged along by a belly being pushed into the floating line by the current. Remember that keeping the fly settled down in the water is why you are making small repositioning moves to the line where you can. Don't make such large mend movements that you pull that sunken fly back to the surface or you're defeating the whole purpose of the mend when fishing a wet fly. It's very similar to drifting a dry fly. You want to produce the floating slack to allow for a drag free drift without 'twitching' or moving the dry as it drifts. This is exactly the same thing but your fly has sunk and reached a depth where a fish may just see it and grab it, you don't want to disturb that drift / swing or depth.

The video does not focus on the dangle at all. If you are wanting to explore with the fly while it is dangling straight down you just flip small mend type loops to the right and left to move the fly in those directions. When doing this remember that it takes quite a while for the fly to realign itself with the new position of the floating line. Be patient while searching in this manner, not every time but more than you would think I have fish who have followed the fly from who knows where as it swung across the current and did not grab it. They sometimes stop down there at the end or dangle point and when that fly begins to move back toward the center of the river or shore again they finally grab. Up until this point it is sometimes unknown to you the angler that there is even a fish there.

Video; Casts and Mends using 45' Scandi

Someday I'll try to make a better demonstration using a mid Spey line and maybe even catch a fish while the camera is running

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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-22-2015, 04:13 PM
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That was a nice video , it showed the mends well. Thanks Ard
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-22-2015, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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If I could change a few things they would be; I'd have used a 55 or 65' belly so the mends were easier to see and I would have slowed down the casting. Instead of taking my time and working each cast fully I was aware that there was a camera running so I was trying to keep it moving along. Using the Scandi made it so that unless I kept the casts to 70' or so my ability to mend the actual floating belly was limited.

The shorter your head / belly the less you can control the floating section. The running line does not have the mass for moving that floating head. This is why I stubbornly stay with longer bellied lines because they allow for me to be more involved in the fishing.


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