PFFFfffff Scandic, Skagit, etc.... ??? - Spey Pages
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 01:51 PM Thread Starter
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PFFFfffff Scandic, Skagit, etc.... ???

I have been speycasting about a decade and sofar I have been using Rio Windcutter spey lines with my 14' - 15' rods, having no trouble at all with the midbelly lines, but recently I went for a shorter rod aswell (12'6" HM+ 8/9 Scierra).

I would like to learn to cast the huge assortment of modern lines, but what weight.

The recommended weight Scandinavian head is 25-27 gram (385 - 415 grains) at 30 ft.

Looking at specs of Skagit heads a 400 grains head is about a 5 or 6 wt.

How do these compare, do I need a heavier skagit head to load the rod properly etc.....

Please advise or direct me to a good source on this subject.

TIA, Gerald.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 03:15 PM
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I do not know that rod but for a typical 8/9 wt rod I would venture you would want a skgit line of around 650 grains for typical skagit casting conditions though if the scandi line at 400 grains actually casts ok then a skagit line should also cast using similare techniques - my gut tells me that 400 grains will be too light for that rod.

For example looking at recommendations for a Sage One 12/6' 8 wt - 510-550 scandi and 600 to 625 skagit.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick J View Post
I do not know that rod but for a typical 8/9 wt rod I would venture you would want a skgit line of around 650 grains for typical skagit casting conditions though if the scandi line at 400 grains actually casts ok then a skagit line should also cast using similare techniques - my gut tells me that 400 grains will be too light for that rod.

For example looking at recommendations for a Sage One 12/6' 8 wt - 510-550 scandi and 600 to 625 skagit.
The only similarity between a Scandi head and Skagit head is they are both heads. A Scandi head typically has a longer, finer front taper designed for a kiss & go cast, long mono leader, with normal size flies, where as the Skagit head is designed for sustained anchor casts, heavy sink tips and large heavily weighted flies.

The Scandi cast being a dynamic cast, the weight of the entire head loads the rod. With the Skagit cast, the line is dead on the water prior to the sweep, the entire length of the sink tip is allowed to "dig in" providing a more positive anchor to keep from prematurely ripping the fly out of the water. Consequently, only the weight of the Skagit head itself makes the D loop, and it needs to generate enough energy to cast not only that big fly, but the sink tip as well. That is why Skagit heads are much heavier than a Scandi head for the same rod.

A Scandi head system will not generate enough load using sustained anchor casts. And a Skagit head will feel clunky and overloaded when exercising dynamic casts. The compromise is a custom head setup often reffed to as a Scandit head.

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 08:21 PM
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385-415 grains sounds too light to me for an 8/9. My 13' 9 wt. casts a 520 grain scandi line and that's on the light end. In any case, when you know how many grains of scandi you need, it's common to add about 100 grains to that for a skagit line.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 08:43 PM
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This is a european rod so don't even look at the 8/9. Use the grams they print on the rod and convert to grains and use that as a guide. This rod is probably more like a 7/8 here. They're rod class standards are different than what is used over here. At 425 grains a scandi short versi tip or a 410 grain steelhead scandi would probably be a nice lines on that rod. As far as skagit, 500 grains would probably be nice or you can over line it abit more as I think most do here for a deeper loading feel if that is what your looking for.

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-29-2012, 12:12 AM
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Gerald,
Just an opinion (based upon personal experience): If a particular rod handles a scandi load of X grains, adding approximately 10%-15% (20% max) more weight and reducing length by approximately 20% will yield a usuable skagit specification, though the taper designs are, as JD points out, very different.

Rio's line suggestion charts at their website are a good place to study this relationship.

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Last edited by yoda1; 12-29-2012 at 12:56 AM. Reason: correcting % estimates
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-29-2012, 03:46 PM
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JD- note that I said a skagit or a scandi of the same weight would work using similar casting techniques. Just because someone has a scandi line or a skagit line on their rod does not mean they are scandi casting or skagit casting!! In fact I would bet that many cast these systems using the same methods. But a skaigt line with a tapered floating tip with grain weights to best accomodate touch and go casts will function very well. The same can be said for a scandi line with grains that work best for sustained anchor casting - I see many folks using scandi lines but using sustained anchor casts.

Now RIO has a new "scandi" line out that comes with tips for throwing bigger weighted flies - I just scratch my head and wonder why would I go there if I already have a bunch of skagit systems that do this very well?
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-29-2012, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
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Well the rod's recommended casting weight is about 400 grains, so I guess in the USA schemes it is more like a 7/8 than the 8/9 stated on the rod.

I figure it makes sense to get my self a scandic head of about that weight in about 30 ft, may be a little more and start from there using my about standard casting and get used to the shorter heads ..... at least to figure out the optimum scandic head weight for the rod and follow much of the above advise later to add some of the skagit heads.

Are there any good DVD's on Scandic vs. Skagit ?
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-30-2012, 12:21 AM
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Gerald,
There are certainly good dvd's on skagit - Skagit Master I probably being the best one on learning to skagit cast - I am not a scandi guy so have not looked for dvd's on that style.

Perhaps the multi disc RIO spey casting dvd would be a good place to start as it covers many different styles

You also might just try on line and type in a search - I expect you will find many video clips you can watch on various types of casting without having to rent or buy a dvd

Good luck on your search!!
R-
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-30-2012, 12:40 PM
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I'd look at an Airflo Rage line. It's like a cross between a Scandi and a Skagit head.

It certainly handles heavier flies and the wind better than a Scandi.

Randy
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-30-2012, 02:10 PM
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A 540 Compact skagit will make that rod rock.

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How you get the line out and fishing is personal preference so as long as it works and is easy no one should care but the caster. MSB
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-30-2012, 08:42 PM
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If you want to learn how to skagit cast...

Get everything you can by Tom Larimer , that doode has a no bullshix approach on how to sling the chubby string , and he wont bore you too tears showing you how... Greg Pearson also has a great section in "Spey to Z" you should get ahold of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw-UD5n4sVY

This clip I think he has a scandi head, but the idea on what he's talking about still applies ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3XV4ZD1zbk

And another fave...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtOA6m0ZCVc



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