Leader set-up recommendations for two hander indi-rigging - Spey Pages
 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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Leader set-up recommendations for two hander indi-rigging

The water temps are now in the 30s on the Wisconsin steelhead tribs. Swinging flies doesn't work often enough for my desires.

I'll be indi-rigging on a 11'9" 7 wt. switch with a two fly combo (8-12 lb. fluoro tippet). The typical water fished will be medium to fast 3-4' deep pocket water up to 8' deep slow froggy water.

Rather than the typical tapered leader set up I want something that I can mimic the success of centerpinners with. I'll be fishing from traditional angles at times, but others I'll be standing up-stream of the slow pools feeding the running line out and trotting with it. I need a leader that will be able to handle aggressive casting with a lot of shot, but is stealthy (clear water right now), and will sink fast and dead drift clean. I'm not as concerned with turning the rig completely over. Having it dump without tangling is kind of the more desired effect.

I have a hunch that a 18-24" 20-30 lb. maxima butt section into 5-6' of 15 lb. maxima or fluoro to a swivel and then tippet might be the way to go???

Just to be clear, I love swinging flies, but am not looking for any comments about what flies or swing techniques I could use in cold water, nor am I looking for any comments about how what I'm doing isn't fly fishing, or spey fishing, or worthy of a spey rod, or that my switch rod isn't a real spey rod, or how I should just by a centerpin instead....

I'm looking for the most effective leader set up recommendations for the type of fishing I'm going to do with the set-up I'm going to use..

Thanks!
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 08:44 PM
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I have a hunch that a 18-24" 20-30 lb. maxima butt section into 5-6' of 15 lb. maxima or fluoro to a swivel and then tippet might be the way to go???
yes, that'll work...but you don't really need a swivel. Keep it simple. Try some tippet rings if you want that kind of connection..otherwise just plain old knots. I usually just use a tapered 9' 10lb leader, and as it gets shorter use the necessary length tippet. I use dense fast sinking "flies" as well. Sinks fine, with not much split shot. having your line "dump" often will cause tangles. Drifts aren't super long...but if you're talking rivers like the brule...you don't need super long drifts, as fish don't sit through out entire pools..they are usually in specific areas, and its easy to reposition yourself as necessary.
One thing to note on those northern tribs...fish spend their whole summer in cold water, so water temp doesn't necessarily determine swinging effectiveness.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
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yes, that'll work...but you don't really need a swivel. Keep it simple. Try some tippet rings if you want that kind of connection..otherwise just plain old knots. I usually just use a tapered 9' 10lb leader, and as it gets shorter use the necessary length tippet. I use dense fast sinking "flies" as well. Sinks fine, with not much split shot. having your line "dump" often will cause tangles. Drifts aren't super long...but if you're talking rivers like the brule...you don't need super long drifts, as fish don't sit through out entire pools..they are usually in specific areas, and its easy to reposition yourself as necessary.
One thing to note on those northern tribs...fish spend their whole summer in cold water, so water temp doesn't necessarily determine swinging effectiveness.
I hear what you're saying. I've been using the standard indi-rig setup you talk about here as of late on the Brule and it has been working really well. If it ain't broke, maybe I shouldn't try and fix it. That said, I'm wondering if a slimmer leader mid-section with an accelerated shot pattern will get me into the bucket behind the riffles more quickly? I also wonder if it will allow me to check the indicator more easily and get more of a fly first presentation in the frog water and tailouts that the fish like so much this time of year.

I guess what I'm asking is, what is the advantage of a standard tapered leader at this point when I'm using a large indicator, heavy flies, and a lot of shot?

One final question. How small will you go tippet wise in this very cold/clear water on the Brule. I've been doing fine on 10 lb. fluoro, but am wondering if it is worth going to 8 or 6 on those slow days?

Thanks for the help!
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 10:16 PM
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I'll use 10 to the first fly...and 8.5 to the second...never lighter. I use tapered leaders because I have a bunch of them (not for any real advantage)...and I use as small of an indicator as I can get away with.

Like you said...if its not broke, why fix it?
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-13-2012, 01:37 AM
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I do some drift fishing too when the water temps get low. My set up consists of 24" of 20 lb. amnesia butt section to 8-12' of 8-10 lb ultragreen to 2' of 8 lb flouro tippet. No swivel or tippet ring, just blood knots for me.

I feel that the level line allows the shot and flys/nymphs to get down faster and stay down a lot better than fishing with a tapered leader.

Also, I usually get away with using less shot (and a smaller indicator) due to how fast the rig is able to get to the bottom and stay down through the run.

I dont fish tandem rigs due to the fact they are not legal on my home waters but i will fish down to 6 lb flouro when the water is clear and the fish are spooky so i'm sure it would be just fine for a dropper fly.

Roy
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-13-2012, 01:10 PM
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Depends how I am casting, overhead casting I use a straight piece of 8lb flouro, with the indicator somewhere on this depending on depth, then a length of 6lb to the fly and then more 6lb between flys, I use tungsten beads and lead underbellies but if you need to use shot you will need to adjust you leader a bit.
If casting "Spey" style I change to a 12ft floating poly leader, the indicator on the end of this and then 8lb flouro to the first fly. The poly leader helps with anchoring the cast and also helps to keep the fly line out of sight of the fish.
All the best.
Mike
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-13-2012, 02:17 PM
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I fish the brule.
While a tapered leader is nice for turnover and anchor,everything needs to happen more compactly, and quicker in tight areas with spooky fish that don't have a lot of patience for you to set everything up way ahead of them. So I just use a leader with hardly any taper.......... I dont seem to have a problem with line piling up.

In fact 90% of the time it unfurls/unpiles as everythig splashes down and it all falls downward into place. i think thats a desirable thing when you want everything to punch down vertically, imo.

So I use an agressively tapered leader of 1 ft of 30, 1 ft of 20, and then like 4 feet of 10 lb floro.then, I use a small centerpin swivel (30 lb.) by raven. I like this option, but everyone is different. Then my tippet. All of my leader material is maxima florocarbon.

I take brown and black magic markers and color up the first 10 ft or so of my flyline.


I slide my indicator along this middle section of 10 lb.. I use hand turned cork indicators that are seldom more than 1.5 inches long at the biggest for the biggest water. for the brule, its about .75 inches long.

. For its size, cork is the most bouyant material And I like indicators to be small, dark, and innocuous. I paint them brown, green, and grey.

This isnt the place to begin a big dialouge on indy fishing, but nobody demands you be a 100% spey purist on here. I sure dont. Sometimes you jsut gotta bend that rod;with some fish on the other end...and the brule can be a tough little crick no doubt. and using a fly to trick a wild fish is still a cool way to do it..

So you can and should explore presenting the fly in a centerpin-like configuration,,to present this way using a fat line, being fed through the guides smoothly, and letting the fly offering come down first. It works. and it works on the brule and any other river steelhead swim. but you only have a couple days left to play on the Brule, so hurry.

What I lack in skill --- I make up for with enthusiasm.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 12:57 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info everyone. There was some good stuff here and in some PMs.

I tested a few configurations Wednesday and Thursday for the Brule close and settled on something pretty simple. 2 feet of 20lb Maxima to 6 feet of 15 lb. Seagur fluoro invisiline to a 50 lb. spro power swivel (very small), then my 12 lb tippet to the first fly and then 10 lb. to the second. I did the heaviest to lightest type of shot pattern all on the 15 lb. fluoro. I stuck with the thill ice n fly for an indicator as it is all I had. I got rid of the peg it comes with and used 2/3 of a toothpick instead so I can see which way it is cocked. It casted like a gem. In fact, I think it tangled less than a traditional tapered leader. It looked good, and it seemed to get in the zone real quick. Most importantly, I had confidence in it.

I managed 15 hook-ups, which is a new 2 day record for me on the Brule. 8 came to hand. Let's just say I won't be dropping $12.95 on tapered fluoro leaders anymore.

Spring will be a long wait.

Thanks again for the help

- C
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 09:33 PM
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Yeah...If I hadn't gotten a bunch of tapered leaders for next to nothing...I wouldn't use them...12.95 is insane.

From what I hear...sounds like the last few days of season were pretty good for a bunch of folks...some great swinging action too.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 11:09 AM Thread Starter
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From what I hear...sounds like the last few days of season were pretty good for a bunch of folks...some great swinging action too.
I did talk to a couple guys who were sticking a few fish in November on the swing and was impressed with there resolve and success.

What kind of flies do you like for late season swinging? Do you go bigger or flashier if you think there are fresh runs around?

Also, do you change your approach at all late season when the bite tends to get better in the afternoon. Throughout November the bite seemed to really pick up once once the sun was out for a couple of hours. Was wondering if you upsize or switch to patterns with more color, flash, or movement.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 07:42 PM
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Best swinging day I heard this year was 9 fish landed...all on different color/style of flies. I don't think it matters as much when fish are "on"...so go with your confidence flies. FWIW..almost everyone I know who swings a lot up there...has a different go-to fly.

IN general..I try to keep it more natural/smaller when its super low/clear...and go a bit larger/flashier/darker when the water is up...but that's fairly standard anywhere. Its all personal preference though really...and swinging in front of a fish that will take the fly
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