Switch rod, Wulff Ambush line, sink tips - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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Switch rod, Wulff Ambush line, sink tips

I talked with a steelhead/salmon guide the other day and he told me that you wouldn't normally fish an Ambush line with sink tips. It is a floating line and adding a sink tip to the end would make it tough to spey cast with a short rod. He said if I wanted to cast sink tips, I'd be better off with using a Rio switch line and add the appropriate sink tip to it.

Is this the general consensus?

To save money and try out spey casting, I'm planning on using my current single handed Sage 7 wt and buy a Echo Ion reel and put Ambush line, or now, maybe Rio switch line on it? I will be using this as my main setup for year around steelhead and the occasional salmon on Oregon/Washington coastal rivers and some Deschutes river fishing. I was looking for a Skagit system that I can use for all fishing (a floating line that I can add sink tips to). Or, maybe it would be better to buy a spare spool for the situations where I need to get deep?

Not sure, any advice would be appreciated. I'm just starting my research and I have more fly shops to call!
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 09:12 PM
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jay,
That's a great question and I look forward to the responses. I have 3
Ambush lines for my SH rods. Don't use one yet for a DH.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 11:16 PM
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The Ambush line will handle sink-tips, no problem. I have here an 11 weight (450 grains) for a 13 foot MKS 6/7 that will turnover Rio DC 15' tips (130 grains) 9 weights . Haven't tried the 150 grain 10 weights, but I can see how easily it would handle short sections of t-materials also. Not the preferred shooting-head for a spey rod because it so short, but the Ambush line turned out to be a great switch line. I also have a five and six weight for Z-Axis 10' #7 and sinking-leaders. They are two weight-classes heavier than the standard WF lines.

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
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Ambush line for SH rods?

I have a older Sage SH 7wt. If I want to spey cast with it, a 7wt Ambush line would work well? With or without sink tips?
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-07-2012, 12:02 AM
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Jaycle: yes, and with sink tips. It really doesn't matter what rod or line, you can do single-handed spey casts with any rod and line combo within reason. Besides the Z-A mentioned, I have an old RPL 9'6" 7 weight and because it is a much softer rod I prefer a #5 Ambush with long leaders. It's a short 18' tapered-head, not as powerful as a skagit-head but it will turn-over the Airflo 7' salmon/steelhead polyleaders in all the sink-rates and the MOW-light tips. I don't have the heavier MOW-tips but my experience tells me a #7 will manage t-8 in short sections for sure.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-07-2012, 03:25 AM
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I think the advice you talk about in the opening post was dead wrong. The Ambush line is a great one for the application you're talking about.

If you want to find out for yourself I'll loan you an Ambush line for a week's test drive with no obligation but the return postage.

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How you get the line out and fishing is personal preference so as long as it works and is easy no one should care but the caster. MSB
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-07-2012, 05:25 AM
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imo the Ambush is a skagit head with integrated running line it works perfectly with sink tips.

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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-07-2012, 06:26 AM
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yea the ambush line is fine with sink tips, if anything the rio switch would be more work with a sink tip if it casts them well at all.

Handles the mow tips fine to if you wanted to use them, i found though that if using the tips with a floating and sinking tip like the 5&5 MOW the floating section was thicker than the tip of the 400gr ambush line i use on my 7wt switch which made it sorta counter productive, as in the power generated when you cast is not progressivley going down the line as the taper is not tapering uniformly when u add the floating or floating/sink tips, so i cut the tip back on the ambush line so it was atleast the same diameter (micrometer time OR a very good eye guesstimation) or thicker and it sorted the problem out whilst only shaving about 5grains off the head weight (i cut off up to where the print is on the ambush head.......before i cut it i found the line sorta ran out of puff.....imagine it would of sorta looked like this.

---------=============-------=====----(not to scale!)

but using straight sink tips is fine i found.

They must find it difficult... those that have taken authority as the truth and not truth as the authority.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-07-2012, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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Ambush line

Thanks for the advice. I don't know what that guide was talking about. I'll just use the 7 wt. Ambush line with my old 9 ft., 7 wt. SH Sage, in case I want to spey cast with it.

In the meantime, I took some spey casting lessons and loved it! I tried to cast a switch and a spey. It seemed like the spey was much easier to cast. So, I think I'll just buy a used entry level full-on 13 ft. 7/8 wt. spey set up and use the SH rod with the Ambush line for the smaller streams. I'ml just going to try to keep it all under $300.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 02:01 PM
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Ambush & Sink Tip

My experience with the Ambush on my Beulah 6/7 Spey was great. Now keep in mind it is a overhead ( single hand rod) line so you will need to go up 3-4 line sizes for your switch.. The one disadvantage is you won't be able to mend those long cast as efficiently as using a longer belly/head when using a indicator. I loved it as I was able swing sink tips then switch out to indicator when needed. No more carrying two rods or spools. If you go to the ambush web site you will see what they recommend.... I am using the Ambush 10wgt at 400gr on the 6/7. That was easy as my rod will handle up to 425gr, Now I'm trying to find the right grain for my 5/6 Beulah Switch. I would also recommend the tapered sink tips, I think rio and airflo both make those...

Last edited by letmgo; 11-18-2012 at 07:20 AM.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 02:32 PM
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I don't know how the ambush line preforms.
I do know that the Rio switch line is definately not the
Right tool for sinktip work. It doesnt spey cast very well
at all IMO.


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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 02:46 PM
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Easy

Do not for a minute just arbitrarily jump up multiple line weights for a switch rod. Like all fly rods switch rods have a designed loading weight. Pick a line in that ballpark and all will be fine. I spey cast all my SH and switch rods with the original load weights and they do perfectly, floating, sinking or tips.

If you want to put 2000 grains on a 3 weight feel free. Or you could use the line your rod is designed for and just enjoy how well it casts and fishes

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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 02:49 PM
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I did not like the Rio switch line... But i think i was asking to much of it....sometimes you just have to go with a skagit for throwing big wet bunny leeches on a T14 sink tip... i called Amy Hazel at Deshutes Anglers and she recommended I try the Ambush for what i wanted to do, carry one rod, using sink tips and indicators... Apparently the Ambush is catching a lot attention among the Switch Rod crowd especially where we are dealing with smaller rivers and you need a smaller D-Loop due to brush and trees....works for me...

Last edited by letmgo; 11-16-2012 at 03:39 PM.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 02:59 PM
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Response to speyman

Those recommendations are the ones that the line company's and most designers suggest and experts in the field say. However, it is a matter of what works for you... And I agree sometimes if it works so be it... But it may matter if you are throwing sink tips with heavier flies .... But like you I know when it feels good. For me when use an overhead line bumping up 2-3 weights helps me feel the load better.... Hopefully some experts will jump in on this post with their input.

PS. I see Poppy at Red Shed had posted, which I didn't see.... Sorry about that... He is an Icon the spey world.... If you have any questions call him.....

Last edited by letmgo; 11-18-2012 at 07:23 AM.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycle View Post
I talked with a steelhead/salmon guide the other day and he told me that you wouldn't normally fish an Ambush line with sink tips. It is a floating line and adding a sink tip to the end would make it tough to spey cast with a short rod. He said if I wanted to cast sink tips, I'd be better off with using a Rio switch line and add the appropriate sink tip to it.

Is this the general consensus?
No, that is arse backwards
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