Scandi heads - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-22-2012, 11:40 PM Thread Starter
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Scandi heads

Just wondering if any body has some advice on scandi heads. I have bought scandi heads for my spey rods with the advice of my spey guru and in every occcurence he has gone lighter than the rod specs. he sold me a 375 grain for my Beulah platinum 13'2 while the webpage has it recommendation for over 400 grains. Same with my t&t 13'0 9 weight he's sold me a 550 grain head which is recommended for my burky 13'9 8 weight. Why would his preference be on the lighter weight? Don't want to insult the guy by asking him. I basically fish for atlantic salmon and haven't done any steelhead applications yet. Another question. When fishing with scandi heads I have heard that longer leaders are recommended. With a floating poly leader should I use a full leader size at the end or straight mono? Started out with long bellies and am trying the scandi because it seems like less effort, Just not fond of all the stripping.
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2012, 05:15 AM
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My advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by permit78 View Post
Just wondering if any body has some advice on scandi heads. I have bought scandi heads for my spey rods with the advice of my spey guru and in every occcurence he has gone lighter than the rod specs. he sold me a 375 grain for my Beulah platinum 13'2 while the webpage has it recommendation for over 400 grains. Same with my t&t 13'0 9 weight he's sold me a 550 grain head which is recommended for my burky 13'9 8 weight. Why would his preference be on the lighter weight? Don't want to insult the guy by asking him. I basically fish for atlantic salmon and haven't done any steelhead applications yet. Another question. When fishing with scandi heads I have heard that longer leaders are recommended. With a floating poly leader should I use a full leader size at the end or straight mono? Started out with long bellies and am trying the scandi because it seems like less effort, Just not fond of all the stripping.
This is a difficult question because rarely do other casters have the same style as you may have. If you are not happy with the advice that you have received and do not wish to approach the person that has sold you the lines, then I suggest that you contact a professional line builder and designer--a very good person to speak to is Steve Godshall. I would phone him tell him what your thoughts and requirements are, he will give you his advice and would design a line for your particular rod or rods, if you asked him to build you a line for your own needs and style. I will list his information below. When you are casting a Skagit or Scandi head, stripping is part of the method. There is simply no other way. Best of luck.

Steve Godshall,
Email- [email protected]
Phone- 1-541-840-2594
Medford-Oregon
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2012, 08:32 AM
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As Harley suggests getting a custom cut line is good advice.Your spey guy's recommendation of 375gr for the Platinium seems light and is probably correct for someone with great underhand technigue,but not for the rest of us.I'll give you an example.A couple of years ago I purchased a used 13' 8/9 underhand [Scandi ] rod.It came with a perfectly matched custom cut line of 448gr.The combination did not perform well for me.I then tried some heavier lines and settled on two,a 480gr compact scandi and a 510 steelhead scandi.Both these lines made the rod come alive for me.As you already noted a line of over 400gr would probably be better for you on the platinium.
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2012, 09:58 AM
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A "+1" for contacting Steve to have him build 'you' a line (won't cost you a penny more than something off the shelf). Steve can do just 'a head,' or a whole line depending upon what you want.

Have several of Steve's lines and all of them just preform wonderfully for THE rod they were designed for. Steve designs his lines for a specific rod AND the specific casters 'style' of casting. Amazing to have him hand you a line and tell you (effectively) 'This is not the line 'you' would probably have chosen, but this is THE line you and the rod need.'

Haven't found him to be wrong yet.




Fred Evans - White City, Oregon
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2012, 10:48 AM
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Are your lines working for you? testing some other lines is the only way you can dial in your own set up for YOUR needs. Get with the Red Shed as poppy has a line testing program that will let you try before you buy.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2012, 11:44 AM
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According with RIO's site http://www.rioproducts.com/skin/summ..._Line_Recs.pdf , the range of your various rods depending on your expertise is (master-beginner) 385-450 for Beulah, 510-550 for your T&T, and 510-550 for Burky. Therefore, it would appear that your Beulah is light and your T&T is heavy: if this is correct and your are not an expert, yours casting should be better with the heavier T&T than the lighter Beulah and vice-versa if you are on the expert side.

As for the leader's lenght, 3-3.5 feet over an above the polyleader.... I like a 14 feet polyleader.

André
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2012, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by permit78 View Post
Just wondering if any body has some advice on scandi heads. I have bought scandi heads for my spey rods with the advice of my spey guru and in every occcurence he has gone lighter than the rod specs. he sold me a 375 grain for my Beulah platinum 13'2 while the webpage has it recommendation for over 400 grains. Same with my t&t 13'0 9 weight he's sold me a 550 grain head which is recommended for my burky 13'9 8 weight. Why would his preference be on the lighter weight? Don't want to insult the guy by asking him. I basically fish for atlantic salmon and haven't done any steelhead applications yet. Another question. When fishing with scandi heads I have heard that longer leaders are recommended. With a floating poly leader should I use a full leader size at the end or straight mono? Started out with long bellies and am trying the scandi because it seems like less effort, Just not fond of all the stripping.
Have you tried them yet? I don't see anything wrong. You have not added in the poly/versi spey leader weight yet, which with 10'-15' versi leaders put's into the zone. The geographic region of Canada I suspect you will be fishing Atlantic Salmon is noted for amongst the clearest rivers in the world. I could certainly see why one would ideally preferance touch & go cast's there with light anchors, finese Scandi as compared to power Scandi with more horsepower under the hood in that region. It's the birthplace, dial in grounds of finesse,long,olive camo tip'ed Scandi heads like the Rio AFS on rods exactly that size. A cup of coffee bet, say's that's very similar grains that Simon Gawesworth, Henrik Mortensen and other noted caster/fisherman would use there, why not you? Being "new" really does not need to change that any more than loading a 905 single hand Trouter for dry's with a 5 wf-f rather than a 6. The larger 9wt x 550grain + poly leader should handle any fly size you would use there, even in high water, with light Scandi it would seem to me.

IMO - Learning to touch and go (single and snake) spey cast does not get easier, increasing grains, to upper zones, unlike waterborn - sa casts may to some. Likely of more importance, to include his grain choice for you but, also for your overall ease of use while learning is your HEAD TO ROD LENGTH RATIO. If he has you on the short end of the stick (likely does for your ease) it should also be on the bottom end of the grain rate scale. A .2 cent wager bets, he has you short ratio and ideal grains for such, starting out. The short ratio will make it much easier for you starting out.

I give this un-known instructor the benefit of doubt personally on this one I take it he is working with you in person? If so, can't get any better than that and sure the heck beats mail order/web attempts.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2012, 12:29 PM
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Have you tried them yet? I don't see anything wrong. You have not added in the poly/versi spey leader weight yet, which with 10'-15' versi leaders put's into the zone. The geographic region of Canada I suspect you will be fishing Atlantic Salmon is noted for amongst the clearest rivers in the world. I could certainly see why one would ideally preferance touch & go cast's there with light anchors, finese Scandi as compared to power Scandi with more horsepower under the hood in that region. It's the birthplace, dial in grounds of finesse,long,olive camo tip'ed Scandi heads like the Rio AFS on rods exactly that size. A cup of coffee bet, say's that's very similar grains that Simon Gawesworth, Henrik Mortensen and other noted caster/fisherman would use there, why not you? Being "new" really does not need to change that any more than loading a 905 single hand Trouter for dry's with a 5 wf-f rather than a 6. The larger 9wt x 550grain + poly leader should handle any fly size you would use there, even in high water, with light Scandi it would seem to me.

IMO - Learning to touch and go (single and snake) spey cast does not get easier, increasing grains, to upper zones, unlike waterborn - sa casts may to some. Likely of more importance, to include his grain choice for you but, also for your overall ease of use while learning is your HEAD TO ROD LENGTH RATIO. If he has you on the short end of the stick (likely does for your ease) it should also be on the bottom end of the grain rate scale. A .2 cent wager bets, he has you short ratio and ideal grains for such, starting out. The short ratio will make it much easier for you starting out.

I give this un-known instructor the benefit of doubt personally on this one I take it he is working with you in person? If so, can't get any better than that and sure the heck beats mail order/web attempts.
I am not really sure what is meant by mail order/web attempts--BUT--I do know that talking to a person on Steve Godshall level or trying lines for your particular style from Poppy at the Redshed are both a great way to have confidence about your purchase. Or you could choose to take advice from a regular style sports shop--BUT-- there again to each his own. All I can say is that Steve has built me five different lines and I must say that each and every one works great. Before I started talking with Steve I probably bought and sold 12-15 lines based on people`s advice looking for the magic bullet. I did not find anything close till I talked things over with Steve. I guess, to each his own.

Regards.

Last edited by harley; 03-23-2012 at 07:31 PM.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2012, 09:16 PM
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... i prefer lighter too

Not that my opinion's worth a hoot, but I agree earnestly with willi's observation in that:

A) You plan to use the "Scandi" heads in a strict touch-and-go capacity, i.e. single speys and snake rolls...

B) You intend to employ a STRONG emphasis on a bottom or underhand dominated forward stroke and...

C) You're considering regularly incoporating 10 - 15ft sinking poly/versi-leaders into the mix

Then I'd too would venture that you are probably in a comfortable zone for excellent performance.

Dunno why, but I also find many mfc's "Scandi" line/rod recs a touch heavier than I prefer for my own touch-and-go underhand casting... especially when incorporating sinking poly/versi-leaders as their grain weights WILL get carried in the loading d-loop during the forward stroke too.

... just my 2 pennies, take it or leave, I won't be offended!

Nate

P.S. I'd bet the fellow who recommended your lines to you probably wouldn't be offended a bit if you asked him to better explain his thinking/rationale... or at least, he shouldn't be!
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2012, 11:09 PM
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Harely,
???
He wrote he is consulted by a "Spey guru" Where does "sport shop" fit in?
Poppy the red shed was not mentioned.
My point he is working with someone and has already purchased lines. Are you suggesting he should ditch them and buy new from this "Steve Godshall" chop shop?

WHERE IS STEVE GODSHALL SPONSOR ADD HERE EXACTLY? Obviously a little army of marketeer props marching around line threads, where is the sponsor add?
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2012, 11:23 PM
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Harely,
???
He wrote he is consulted by a "Spey guru" Where does "sport shop" fit in?
Poppy the red shed was not mentioned.
My point he is working with someone and has already purchased lines. Are you suggesting he should ditch them and buy new from this "Steve Godshall" chop shop?


I have nothing pro or con to say about him but, WTF is with this constant chant by the same few where ever a line question comes up? Lobbied?P

He is making building stuff WTF don't he put up a sponsor add as he is obviously selling / marketing here?
Good Evening willi:
You are absolutely right in every thing that you have stated--I just quite simply read the post wrong-by the way Steve works for Bob Meiser who is a sponsor. I especially am enjoying your attitude and your vivid choice of abbreviations such as WTF-Have a pleasant evening. Oh, by the way, I see that you made some changes to your post from the time that I took a quote from it.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-24-2012, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by permit78 View Post
Just wondering if any body has some advice on scandi heads. I have bought scandi heads for my spey rods with the advice of my spey guru and in every occcurence he has gone lighter than the rod specs. he sold me a 375 grain for my Beulah platinum 13'2 while the webpage has it recommendation for over 400 grains. Same with my t&t 13'0 9 weight he's sold me a 550 grain head which is recommended for my burky 13'9 8 weight. Why would his preference be on the lighter weight? Don't want to insult the guy by asking him. I basically fish for atlantic salmon and haven't done any steelhead applications yet. Another question. When fishing with scandi heads I have heard that longer leaders are recommended. With a floating poly leader should I use a full leader size at the end or straight mono? Started out with long bellies and am trying the scandi because it seems like less effort, Just not fond of all the stripping.
I have the Beulah rod and a 450 gr airflo scandi compact or Beulah elixir will rock on this rod. With every poly in your bag. Good luck
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-24-2012, 09:36 AM
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When casting light flies, my total leader (including my polyleader) is up to 2 times the length of my spey rod.

I don't think you have to get a custom line built. See if you can return the line you have and get a heavier one. If a scandi line is too light, I think you'll probably blow a lot of anchors.

I guess one way to add some weight to a line is to go with a long, 14 foot or so, polyleader, but normally on a 13 foot rod I'd go with a 10 foot polyleader.

Finally, I'd call the guys up at Rio and ask them what weight line they would recommend.

Randy
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-24-2012, 09:49 AM
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How would you set up the leader from end of a floating Polyleader to fly?
Do you use level leader or something tapered?

Thanks

John
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-24-2012, 10:24 AM
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How would you set up the leader from end of a floating Polyleader to fly?
Do you use level leader or something tapered?

Thanks
Usually you attach tippet to the end of your poly leader. I use 3-4 ft of maxima depending and anywhere between 10 -12 lb.
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