Tungsten tip with scandi lines? - Spey Pages
 16Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-11-2020, 12:26 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Danielmp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 4
Tungsten tip with scandi lines?

Hi, could you tell me if I can use tungsten tips with a scandi line? For example t10 - t14-17?
Danielmp is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-11-2020, 11:09 AM
Registered User
 
Captcaveman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 189
I can, but don't like to, throw 10' of t8 on a Beulah Elixir 375 Spey matched to a Beulah Platinum 6126 with touch and go casts. The anchor can be sticky and ruin a cast very easily if you're not paying a huge amount of attention. I would not even bother trying if your running a dry-line, thin tipped scandi that wasn't designed for using tips. It is not comfortable, and not something I would want to do all day. In fact, I only tried it out of curiosity.

It is definitely not something I would recommend to someone just starting out. More experienced (most other people), naturally talented (some other people), or naturally stupid (me) casters can sometimes get away with shenanigans like this.

IMO If you're stuck on throwing super heavy tips, use a skagit head. But...

There are ways to cast "scandi style" with T-material, but you have to look at lines differently by matching a light and appropriate length skagit head to the appropriate weight and length tip. When combined correctly, this will make +/- a 33% sinking tipped, 67% floating driver scandi head, of overall (tip weight + driver weight) that can be cast in the scandi style without overloading your rod. But essentially you're just re-inventing the wheel...

Multi-density scandi heads are already available, and may perform better than the DIY approach.
steelhead23 and HumberRskagit like this.

-Sean
Captcaveman is online now  
post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-11-2020, 11:10 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Deschutes
Posts: 450
They would most likely be too heavy and very difficult and not fun to cast. Use versileaders or polyleaders with scandi lines if you want to use sink tips. Versi/polyleaders are much lighter and more tapered than the t-x sink tips. You might be able to get away with t-8 with a scandi line and maybe even t-14 with some of the crossover type scandi lines like the rio scandi body or rage, if they are 400 grains or higher and you are a decent caster. I have used t-11 with a 400 grain scandi body intermediate line and it wasn't terrible. But, those intermediate versions seem to carry more mass than the floating ones.
Yardsale and HumberRskagit like this.
Skol Bandit is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-11-2020, 11:45 AM
Registered User
 
eriefisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Lower Grand River, Saugeen and everything else wet.
Posts: 1,076
Your best bet would be to get a sinking tip scandi if it's a scandi line you want tp stick with.

Dan

Which way to the river?
eriefisher is offline  
post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-11-2020, 04:48 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Tay,Tweed,Ribble.
Posts: 390
Since the days of DT lines forward to this very day, I've allways carried 3 small coils of T material in my wading jacket pocket for just in case I can't get deep enough with the kit I'm using,it was always with sinking lines/heads and very much a "get out of jail" card.It was a 5ft, 7ft and 10ft length of T 14.Now in the days of DT sinkers, I'd trim the front taper of the line back to try and achieve at least some semblance of a level sinking line and to help turning over heavier tube flee's.I could manage the 5ft and 7ft quite easily if I had to, the 10ft took a bit of work!.
Spey profile lines were a little harder, again I always trimmed the tips back, so that helped. However, it does reduce the shoot ability of longer bellied lines( the T material, not the cutting back!).
Nowadays I use what you all love in calling shooting heads-Scandi Lines- primarily Guideline in Single , Double and Triple D variations, these will all tolerate a 5ft and 7ft length quite easily, 10ft requires a little more effort and technique.But it's very very do-able.
As I don't want to tailor any of my Shooting Heads to be specific T material carriers by cutting the tips back, it's very much a make do n mend for when I have to do what needs to be done to save the day.Suffice to say, if you want to tailor lines, then why not?, it can only make things better.- in this instance.
Obviously common sense thinking tells you if you reduce the T stuff to T10, or T8 or less, then its all much easier!.
Also, some lines will be naturally better at achieving what you want, others will drive you to distraction.Those with long fine front tapers will be a non starter.
Heavier lines will also make it much easier, much of my sunk line fishing would be 10/11 lines and often above, the heavier lines turning over the T material easier.
The hardest part of the battle is in picking the right heads-obviously!
Good luck, Yorkie.
YORKIE is offline  
post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 03:10 PM
Registered User
 
fish0n4evr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The mid-Pacific.
Posts: 4,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielmp View Post
Hi, could you tell me if I can use tungsten tips with a scandi line? For example t10 - t14-17?
T-10 maybe t-8 better still. But a heavier head will do better than a lighter one WRT sink tips and turnover. Say a 7wt line for a 6/7WT rod for example.
fish0n4evr is offline  
post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 04:35 PM
Registered User
 
Botsari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Northern California
Posts: 3,111
It’s all about the linear density (gr/ft) of the tip you use. T8 is 8 gr/ft (hence the name) but you could also get approximately the same sink rate (s6, 6 ips) as T8 with #5,6,7 Rio Replacement tips (5.5,6.5,7.5 gr/ft respectively). Those are very similar to “t-tips” - are almost level tips but have different diameters with different amounts of tungsten per unit volume. They also come (for some weights) in s8, equivalent in sink rate to t11 but the same gr/ft as the s6, s3, int tips of the same wt rating.

On trout weight scandi lines I still tend to use these Replacement Tips (“light t-tips”) on lines that have been designed for tips, equivalent to a scandi line that has been cut back a bit to carry a tip - a commercial example is the Rio Scandi short versitip. But on a heavier scand head, or a scandi head like the Beulah elixer that has been designed with a bit heavier carrying capacity you would have no problem using these, or even s8 on the heavier ones.

A quick and dirty way to figure out if one of the replacement tips might work is if you happen to have a tapered leader/polyleader that you already know works with the head in question then the AVERAGED gr/ft of that one should work on the same head for the (mostly level) replacement tips. If the Rio tip has similar averaged weight/lenght then the butt end of the tapered leader will likely have a similar or even greater local gr/ft, so the replacement tip should work fine. There are loads of tapered polyleaders, for example, with AVERAGED linear density of 5-8 gr/ft.

The advantage of the replacement tips is that they can be much lighter and usable on delicate lines like scandis. They give you more flexibility to use greater sink rates. The downside if that they are a little more expensive, and unless you have a very good flyshop nearby you probably will want to go looking for the right one online. This method is however WAY cheaper than buying a whole new line.

As always final validation will depend on trying it out, but I hope this gives you a few ideas.

“Gravity is a harsh mistress!”, The Tick
Botsari is offline  
post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 12:01 AM
Registered User
 
Yooper-Fly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Upper Peninsula Michigan
Posts: 1,122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielmp View Post
Hi, could you tell me if I can use tungsten tips with a scandi line? For example t10 - t14-17?
Don’t do it
Wetwader and HumberRskagit like this.

You make known to me the path of life;
in your presence there is fullness of joy;
at your right hand are pleasures forevermore.

PSALM 16:11
Yooper-Fly is offline  
post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 01:00 AM
Registered User
 
BudCrist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Whitney Texas
Posts: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper-Fly View Post
Don’t do it


+1


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
HumberRskagit likes this.
BudCrist is online now  
post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 01:11 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: OR
Posts: 2,999
You can throw anything as long as the grains match. But there's a reason there are scandi lines and skagit lines. You want to throw mass, skagit. You want something smaller and maybe a bit more refined in delivery, scandi. You could also use a scandi driver body, which I think might be French for skagit.
Yardsale likes this.
SLSS is online now  
post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 02:29 AM
Dedicated Fisherman
 
Hardyreels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alaska, Skwentna to Kodiak
Posts: 3,198
Send a message via Skype™ to Hardyreels
Hi Daniel,

I have no idea if you will return to read replies. I considered a PM but some people sign up and select not to receive PM's so I'll post here and copy a PM to boot.

If you were to enter the search words 'Streamer Fishing Techniques by Ard Stetts' into your browser you'll see how I manage to fish 45 foot Scandi lines and Mid Spey lines and get my flies down.

I suggest using a computer or at least iPad for viewing as I can't imagine I made the video to be viewed on a phone

About 3 minutes into it you will see how I rig a sink tip to a Scandi. I live in Alaska and I catch everything this way from Kings to Steelhead and it'll work down to 6 - 7 feet of depth. You can make your own system or contact me if you want to give it a whirl.

The video explains how I get the required depth wherever I fish.

Ard

Kill the hens you kill the river.
Hardyreels is offline  
post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 03:23 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 14
Great video Ard, really liked the double ended braided loop idea.
woody-wood is online now  
post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 08:57 AM
Registered User
 
Tubular Spey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Bow river
Posts: 339
Awesome video Ard - I’m going to give that set up a try.
Tubular Spey is offline  
post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 12:42 PM
Registered User
 
Botsari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Northern California
Posts: 3,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLSS View Post
You can throw anything as long as the grains match. But there's a reason there are scandi lines and skagit lines. You want to throw mass, skagit. You want something smaller and maybe a bit more refined in delivery, scandi. You could also use a scandi driver body, which I think might be French for skagit.
Yes, I was going to say that if you ever find a scandi that casts t14 like the OP was asking, it will be a Scandino (scandi in name only). If you NEED to get that deep then you have to make sacrifices (use a skagit) or be clever like a fox (Ard).

Even the compensated tips have limits. They don’t make these light tips in sink rates faster than 8ips (equivalent to the heavier t11) - I assume because they would have to be too thin and/or have so much % of Tungsten in the coating the plastic would no longer hold it together. Actual t11 is a no, and over that is a hard no. The platonic form of a scandi has a long taper and a slender tip that turns over a long lightweight tapered LEADER with elegance, so whenever you start playing with real tips you are tempting retribution from the gods.

“Gravity is a harsh mistress!”, The Tick
Botsari is offline  
post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 01:03 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 75
Heavy Scandi ....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	AIR RAGE 600 + T10 13´.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	248.6 KB
ID:	355978  
Wetwader likes this.
troutcontrol is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Spey Pages forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome