Tangled Leader - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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Practicing my cast this morning I had some issues with tying immense knots in my leader. I was using a short leader, polyleader, and skagit head with a tube fly and no hook. It seemed on 10-20% of my casts I had the fly crash the leader on the forward cast. I'm guessing this is a tailing loop issue like on single hand rods. Is it better to not try to form as tight of loops so that the "parallel" portions are further separated? Any other guidance?

I'm in Florida so casting instruction is not as available. Thanks!

Secondarily any advice on training myself to use more bottom hand? Really trying to focus on it but there are a lot of moving parts...
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 10:44 AM
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Sounds like a tailing loop for sure. First I would remove the poly leader and use a proper tip of some kind. For myself I find if I'm getting tailing loops it's because I'm arching the rod rather that trying to follow a straight path with the forward cast or my anchor is not inline with the direction of the cast and I'm crossing the anchor. Not usually an issue with a scandi or longer lines but with a skagit can be fatal. What type of cast have you been using?

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 03:04 PM
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When leader and fly lifts out of water anchor sometimes they tend to "jump" very high and then when line loop runs further the fly/leader can come too much down and collide with rod leg of line loop Behavior is bit like TL but obviously mechanism is not too abrupt power stroke and can come when line front taper does not get lighter smooth.

If it is the TL you have there it can also form if you stop too soon/high and fast straightening rod tip rise above the line path.

Esa
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 05:58 PM
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Tailing loops and crossing loops can make the most amazing knots.
And, let's not forget crashed anchors.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 06:10 PM
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Using a poly instead of a more substantial tip on a skagit head results in a monster download of energy right into the base of the poly. This can cause premature turnover/ abrupt turnover- far too powerfully to be smooth. It can cause bullwhipping, 'wind' knots, all sorts of crap including loss of distance.

Try a scandi head in the same grain weight with your poly, or a more substantial tip on the skagit. You can also back off the gas on the forward cast and try a super high stop. Make sure your bottom hand input is smooth.

Whatcha fishing for, snook?

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-29-2019, 11:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriefisher View Post
Sounds like a tailing loop for sure. First I would remove the poly leader and use a proper tip of some kind. For myself I find if I'm getting tailing loops it's because I'm arching the rod rather that trying to follow a straight path with the forward cast or my anchor is not inline with the direction of the cast and I'm crossing the anchor. Not usually an issue with a scandi or longer lines but with a skagit can be fatal. What type of cast have you been using?

Dan
Thanks. I have been using the single, double, and snap t. I will probably be using this mostly with floating tips for lakes and coastal areas. This will mean I need to figure out how to cast without heavy sink tips. After reading some other posts it looked like the grain weight for the head doesn't matter?
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-29-2019, 11:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bender View Post
When leader and fly lifts out of water anchor sometimes they tend to "jump" very high and then when line loop runs further the fly/leader can come too much down and collide with rod leg of line loop Behavior is bit like TL but obviously mechanism is not too abrupt power stroke and can come when line front taper does not get lighter smooth.

If it is the TL you have there it can also form if you stop too soon/high and fast straightening rod tip rise above the line path.

Esa
Thanks. I am trying to figure this out. I'll try to focus on the stroke more. Lots of moving pieces. I could totally see this being part of it.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-29-2019, 11:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Butt View Post
Tailing loops and crossing loops can make the most amazing knots. <img src="http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/images/SpeyPages_2015/smilies/tango_face_crying.png" border="0" alt="" title="Crying" class="inlineimg" />
And, let's not forget crashed anchors. <img src="http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/images/SpeyPages_2015/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />
So true...
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-29-2019, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeySpaz View Post
Using a poly instead of a more substantial tip on a skagit head results in a monster download of energy right into the base of the poly. This can cause premature turnover/ abrupt turnover- far too powerfully to be smooth. It can cause bullwhipping, 'wind' knots, all sorts of crap including loss of distance.

Try a scandi head in the same grain weight with your poly, or a more substantial tip on the skagit. You can also back off the gas on the forward cast and try a super high stop. Make sure your bottom hand input is smooth.

Whatcha fishing for, snook?
Hoping to do some coastal work during tide movement and also off the beach. Also hoping to do some fishing in lakes and freshwater rivers.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-01-2020, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by kinigit View Post
Hoping to do some coastal work during tide movement and also off the beach. Also hoping to do some fishing in lakes and freshwater rivers.
The rod's manufacturer should have a chart of suggested heads/weights for their rod(s). Check their website or call them. It might help you minimize the trial and error period.
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