What am I doing wrong here? - Spey Pages
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-04-2009, 01:42 AM Thread Starter
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What am I doing wrong here?

Tried my new 15'er today. I had trouble getting the line to pull the fly up out of the water. (Airflow delta) Does the leader need to be 15'? I had a pretty stiff head wind and ice was forming on the guides and the line. I think I was still underpowering the cast though. My entire instruction up to this point has been the Winston spey video. My best cast was maybe 60-65'. I had a lot of casts that ended in the fly stopping the line like an anchor and killing the cast. Best guess, is it style or power I screwing this up with? I only cast for about half an hour as I got tired of dodging giant chunks of ice.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-04-2009, 01:58 AM
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leader can be as long as you need-if the fish still bites with a 1 foot leader-bless there cold little hearts.
As far as your problems-many things could be puttin the hurt on your cast-youtube has some good vids-mine are under speyschool-with out seeing or hearing the cast only feeble guesses at best can be made-
One such feeble guess is your lift is of the pivot type (works ok for real short heads) instead of a shotgun type lift which is forcing you to start your back cast from a high tip position which is causing you to trunk/hook or at best a level sweep-all causing excess line stick robbing energy on forward cast.
If you can video tape your cast's-send it to me(pm me and we can swap emails-As I'm a Baudette Original GANGSTA-I'll be glad to help YA

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-04-2009, 05:18 AM
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Dan, I believe it would be helpful if you told us which 15' Meiser and the line size of the Delta you're using.

In the conditions you're describing maybe 65' isn't that bad.

As to leader length, with the floating tip if it's to short maybe your not getting enough line stick causing you to pull your anchor. I like a leader as long as the rod but you can get by with the floating tip and 10' or 12' of leader.

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How you get the line out and fishing is personal preference so as long as it works and is easy no one should care but the caster. MSB
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-04-2009, 11:57 AM
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1.Take up "speyforsteel" on his wonderful offer-
2. Call Poppy, and after you bs him about your setup, order the Rio DVD with Simon in it-
3. Pay, travel, Sell yourself , whatever it takes to get some competent instruction on the water from an accomplished caster. Take a class as soon as you can, it will make much sense out of the obscurities of the begining of this journey...



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Take it to the water, and see if it works for you-

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-04-2009, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diver dan View Post
...I think I was still underpowering the cast though. My entire instruction up to this point has been the Winston spey video. My best cast was maybe 60-65'...
I think you can move this to the bottom of your list of possibilities. Underpowering is most unlikely. If everything else is right, you should be able to turn your fly into a missile with just a very easy push. Overpowering is a FAR more common problem.

Speyfor's offer is terrific. If you can figure out a way to record and send him a few seconds of video of your casting efforts, he will have you doing it the way you want to in no time.

Bert

Last edited by nextcast; 04-05-2009 at 11:04 PM.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-04-2009, 08:30 PM
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You're not using Turbodisk flies are you ? they are swines to dig out of the water.
In such cold conditions I assume you are trying to achieve some depth by using a long leader & heavy fly ? Instead try a sinking line, short leader & lighter fly to achieve the depth required. By handlining back the running line, the sinking line will rise in the water, a downstream roll cast will both dig out the line & reposition it ready for the cast. Usually 4 to 5 feet of leader is all that is required & with ultra fast sinking lines shorten this to 3 feet to achieve depth.
Whilst Scando shootiing heads require longer leaders to provide an anchor for casting, these are not needed with normal speylines. Low flows & warm water may require long light leaders for presentation if a fish is to take the very small flies often required; however freezing water usually means much larger patterns requiring heavier leaders & a shorter leader length works just as well & is much easier to cast. Also the thinner, more dense line travels thru' the air much more quickly & is far easier to cast into a wind than a floating line. Additionally as it sinks below the fastest more turbulent flows at the surface, coupled with the reduced profile presented to the current, the sinker will track around more slowly than a floater giving a slower swing of the fly - which is prefered for cold conditions when the metabolism of the fish slows up & they prefer a larger & slower presentation down 'on their nose' as they are much less inclined to come to the surface - particularly if the air is considerably colder than the water.

Regards, Tyke.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-05-2009, 09:19 PM
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Sounds like technique to me since you mentioned the fly stopping the line like an anchor. You really need to have your fly positioned (this fly position is known as the "anchor) within one rod length or so of you when spey casting or else it really does act like a boat anchor that prevents the fly from being pulled up out of the water and cast.

The other thing is since you are new to spey casting, don't try to make long casts yet, they will come with practice. Right now you are better off working on technique (just like you did when learning how to cast with a single-hand rod, remember how you couldn't do that very well either at first). I'd recommend using 50'-55' of line and working on having very consistent anchor placement, "D" Loop formation, hand/arm position when making the final forward delivery (also known as the "key position"). Once these are good and consistent, then lenghten the cast by 10' and repeat until they are consistent, then add 10' to you cast, etc.

Doing it this way you will avoid developing bad habits and will be casting 80' or more in a relatively short time. You didn't learn how to make 65' casts with a single-hand rod in a few days, and you won't learn how to spey cast 80'+ in a few days either. Spey casting is different than overhead single-hand casting, so you need to learn a new set of casting skills, which doesn't happen overnight.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 07:42 AM
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What Cast???

What Casts are you attempting to do?
It makes a big difference on how you apply power and how you place the anchor.
This is governed by the cast not the rod , the line or leader.
Give us a little more information Please.

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 11:35 AM
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I am certinatly not one to give much advice, however I am also new to the spey thing. Don't get me wrong I can get line out, just not really prety. Anyway I found, as many will tell you, time on the water and practice are the best medicine. And maybe most importunately SLOW DOWN. I find when I try too hard I go way to fast and always pull my anchor, sometimes wearing the fly.
I have the RIO video, its a huge help. It covers everything A-Z including falt finding. Simon shows what you did and how to fix it. I would say its the next best thing to 1 one 1 instruction. "give it a go" as Simon would say.
Just my 2 cents hope it will help.
Jim
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 09:10 PM
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Question A few thoughts into the mix.

As noted above the initial 'lift' ** is key to what ever's going to happen next, the swing for placement of the 'anchor/pick.' Ignoring the rest of the cast (choice set up) the (imho) the 'third' most important element of the forward cast, is the high sharp stop aimed at 10 AM. Aim for the tree tops!

The second 'key' is your 'aim point' on the forward cast (dry line/long leader) has to be right over the connection of line/leader to get the proper 180 degree 'change of direction. This is just as true with a 2-hander as with a single hander. If you don't, you get what's call "The Bloody L."

** Line on the dangle, rod tip just an inch or two above the water and lift the rod tip STRIGHT UP to (+/-) 45 degree angle, then (no pause!!!!) go into what ever cast your doing. The initial lift is the same with ALL spey casts, or at least that I can think of at the moment.

Hope that makes sense ......

fae



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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 09:26 PM
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Lightbulb AH HA! I knew Dana had a video on my post above.

http://speypages.com/speyclave/showthread.php?t=26776

River Dan, I think Dana's clip goes right to the heart of the 'problem.'

Fred



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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 11:57 PM Thread Starter
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I am going to video tape my cast for Speyforsteel ( and thanks by the way) and look through the video links you have all provided. I have not had a chance to work on this for the last few days except in the early morning. The temps then have been in the low teens but it has been warming up in the afternoons to a whopping low 30's. Mmmm toasty. In a few days I may have more information as to why I suck. Thanks all.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-08-2009, 12:01 AM
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I had tha AC on today
I'll be waitin for them.
Gonna be in San Fran next week but I'll have my Computiker with me.

Boss fly lines.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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OK, i just went and tried it again after reviewing the RL Winston video. If you count distance as from me to the fly I got a good hundred feet. I had a tail wind and it was warm enough there was no ice on the line or guides. I had a clouser on and it ripped it out of the water like a polaris missle. I have the delta spey line and it is 120'. I got line out to where there was as much backing as fly line showing on the reel. I think I got it. Now I just have to figure out how to get the line from down stream to across the current without looking like a doofus or hooking an ear. I can see where this could be horribly addicting. Don't tell the surgeon general.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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Here is a list of what I think I was doing wrong the first time. To much right hand and not enough left. Dropping the rod tip to low at the end of the cast. Releasing the line to soon. Strong head wind and frozen water on the line and guides. Now how do I do a 90 degree direction change with a long belly spey>
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