skagit head: where should the color change be? - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-26-2017, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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skagit head: where should the color change be?

Hi friends, dumb question I know. Of all the hundreds of YouTube videos on casting, almost all of them assume, understandably, that the viewer knows some of these super basic things. It's surprisingly hard to find this basic step. What is the optimal amount of line to cast with a skagit head? From trial and error, I know what seems to work and what seems to not work, but I'd like to know from the experienced casters or even line manufacturers, where that color change is supposed to be and how critical it is. THANKS for the help! Dave

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-26-2017, 05:32 PM
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For me, it's at the tip of the rod. The color break might be snugged up right to the tip top, or it might be 2' below for certain casts.

But basically it's wherever it works best for you.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-26-2017, 06:07 PM
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Distance between the head and rod tip is known as overhang. Depending on the back taper of the head in can vary. I find that more overhang gives you lighter and more lively tighter casting. In some instances when wading deep or tight against the bank more overhang is not the luxury you have. Anything between none to as much as 5'.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-26-2017, 06:53 PM
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If you experiment with overhang lengths you will see the difference. As a general rule if you increase the overhang from zero it may aid in forming a tight loop, but go too far and the cast may collapse. Some skagit lines have from a few inches to a few feet of back taper - a bit of line that tapers quickly to a smaller diameter befor the loop. The overhang is the distance from the rod tip to the beginning of the FAT part of the back of the line, not to the loop itself, though a lot of times they are the same thing. I find on a skagit head I typically use no less than 2' of overhang. On longer lines and rods as much as 4-5' can feel best. It depends a bit on the line, rod, and caster. But, again, just do the experiment - do casts with a little more overhang each time until things get silly, and you will get the idea pretty quickly.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-26-2017, 09:10 PM
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One other point for novices -- like me -- about overhang in Skagit casting. It would seem that the running where it joins the head would be prone to wear and tear overa hard season's use. Should you cut it back and if so often? Anyone ever sailed a head into the next county?

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-27-2017, 12:31 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you guys! OK, so which is the actual overhang, or overhang amount? My running line is orange and turns to brownish at the last 2 1/2 feet or so, then it goes to my skagit head. The first 4' of my skagit head is sky blue, then it goes to lime green. I have had the best "luck" with roughly any amount of the sky blue section running through and in contact with my tip guide, but 4 feet is alot, and didn't know if I should be trying to have the brownish section at my tip, or the beginning of the 4' sky blue section, or the end of it, etc. DS

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-27-2017, 12:46 AM
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In the end it doesn't matter. If you try the different overhangs and figure out which one you like best then that one is the right one. Sounds like you have a whole lot of colors to demarcate things. What skagit head is that? A Rio? Another way is to just carefully look at the line. A skagit head, or at least the business part, is usually a close approximation to a cylinder. Where is the spot where the line reaches its full diameter in the back? That would be another reference point. I have been know to make marks on lines with a sharpie, especially integrated lines with no color changes, but sounds like you have the opposite problem.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-27-2017, 12:50 AM
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What rod and line are you casting? The more info you give us, the more info we can give back.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-27-2017, 01:58 AM Thread Starter
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What rod and line are you casting? The more info you give us, the more info we can give back.
Thanks Jason. The rod is an ECHO TR 13' 7wt rated for 510 to 620 grains. The line is an AIRFLO spey/switch 24.5' skagit head. Skagit compact 2.0 570 grain floating. I have a couple other skagit heads I started with, but they were lighter in grain weight and one was an intermediate line. This one "seems" better, but those were great, too.

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-27-2017, 11:57 AM
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Overhang without getting anchor placed backwards or lengthening the leader or line tip as well does not improve Spey casting much because it lowers the line mass in top of the D-loop. But casting line head constantly inside rod is not good either.

Esa
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-27-2017, 02:06 PM
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Dave,
I have the TR 7130 as well and I have found I like the rio 525. as for the color change I find it easier to relate to the loop connection when wading beyond my knees I like the loop right below the tip almost in contact it keeps me from blowing my anchor. as for knee deep or less when I am prone to putting a little to much speed in my swing I have found between a foot to 2 foot of running line outside my rod tip. I hope this helps.
Troy
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-27-2017, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
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wow thank you guys so much- that all helps a ton!

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 05:00 PM
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Thanks Jason. The rod is an ECHO TR 13' 7wt rated for 510 to 620 grains. The line is an AIRFLO spey/switch 24.5' skagit head. Skagit compact 2.0 570 grain floating. I have a couple other skagit heads I started with, but they were lighter in grain weight and one was an intermediate line. This one "seems" better, but those were great, too.

Have you tried the Airflo 540 grain skagit on that rod? I have the DH2 in 7130, and the 540 seem to load that rod nice and deep. I would think the 570 may be a little heavy?
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-23-2017, 10:25 PM
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Always love how much I can learn reading a thread like this. Great stuff, guys! For me, I usually think of overhang in terms of how much room I have for my stroke length and D loop. When I have a lot of room, I like more overhang, up to 2 feet, and tighter loops with a longer stroke. When I'm jammed up and can't wade deeper and I have to use a small D loop, I sometimes put it right at the tip. I don't own a long rod(14+), but when I've cast them, I've liked even more overhang. I'm still just a very intermediate caster, but this is my experience.

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 12:17 AM
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Always love how much I can learn reading a thread like this. Great stuff, guys! For me, I usually think of overhang in terms of how much room I have for my stroke length and D loop. When I have a lot of room, I like more overhang, up to 2 feet, and tighter loops with a longer stroke. When I'm jammed up and can't wade deeper and I have to use a small D loop, I sometimes put it right at the tip. I don't own a long rod(14+), but when I've cast them, I've liked even more overhang. I'm still just a very intermediate caster, but this is my experience.
This is true - you can use overhang as a geometric counter-balance for where your anchor goes, including the changes due to how deep you are wading in addition to the ones you mention. But to be clear, there is a second and INDEPENDENT effect. Like the first one, it is pure geometry, but has to do with where the fat, loop-forming part of the line is in relationship to the rod tip at the moment you come to a hard stop at the end of the power stroke. This geometry strongly influences the initial loop that gets formed and then propagated forward. The sweet spot, it should be clear from that description, depends on the line and where (and how) you stop on the forward stroke. You can of course also change your stoke to influence this stuff, just as you can change the D loop to adjust for the geometry of the anchor. But all other things being unchanged, if you would like a bit tighter loop, then increasing the overhang, up to a point of diminishing returns, can tweak things in that direction. It is a completely different effect than the one you get that adjusts for the anchor placement and relative water height. Anyway, something to play with consciously to see what you like best - that week/day/hour at least.
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