Forward stop on a skagit cast - Spey Pages
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-10-2008, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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Forward stop on a skagit cast

I've been trying to get my skagit rig/cast sorted out and embarrassingly enough for a setup which is supposed to be the easiest I am having the most difficulty.

I think to some degree I am blowing it based off my forward stop. What is the (general) rule of thumb for the positive stop, is it 11:00? My stop is now generally around 2 or 1 and it does not seem to be working for me correctly.

Al
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-10-2008, 10:11 PM
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Positive stop at 11:00. If you stop at one or two, the rod tip is still behind you and it won't work. Make sure your cast is perpendicular to your anchor (use the leader-tip as your reference, not the line-tip which is generally easier to see, especially when transitioning from floating tips while using dark sink tips) and minimize power with your upper hand. This should help your casting immensely.

Kurt
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 11:13 AM
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The hand and arm movements for skagit casting can be very small and short. If you keep your bottom hand down near belt level and pull that hand into the belt at the stop this pretty much automatically stops the rod tip at around 10:30 or 11.

I would highly recommend reviewing the skagit section on the RIO DVD done by Scott O and Mike M - this is an excellent section on control and short easy strokes. I expect the biggest problem most have with this type casting is too much upper hand and little bottom hand.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 07:15 PM
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Check out this fellow with his casting at the ponds in San Francisco.

He is adding the Perry poke to a Skagit cast, but he shows the high sudden stop very well.

Heres' the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBE85hvCzgQ

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-12-2008, 12:58 AM
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Perry Poke....

in that video it seems to make to make the forward cast with the first/original D-loop. He doesn't appear to be adding anymore anchor or load than the first D-loop made. The laying of line at the tip looks like a wasted step. Am I wrong?
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-12-2008, 01:01 AM
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Sustained anchor

Don't see anything that looks like a sustained anchor in that video.


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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-12-2008, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EzGoing View Post
in that video it seems to make to make the forward cast with the first/original D-loop. He doesn't appear to be adding anymore anchor or load than the first D-loop made. The laying of line at the tip looks like a wasted step. Am I wrong?
The extra move = the Perry Poke makes certain that the anchor is aligned with the direction of the forward cast. Albiet he is on a pond, and making a same direction cast. One might try a change of direction cast such as a snap C, Circle Spey, Snake roll or Double Spey on a river, and the additional move is helpful in setting the anchor where you want it....aligned with the direction of the forward cast.

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-12-2008, 11:07 AM
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The Perry Poke also lets you get the line out farther out in front of you which can shorten your D loop in back - nice in tight situations. Also if you blow your anchor or it does not land where it should this lets you reposition things

I also noted not much sustained anchor or pausing in the video - just goes to show that many variations in casting styles can work
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-12-2008, 12:00 PM
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The Perry Poke...

...IS a Skagit cast.

The term "sustained anchor" is a description for instituting considerable amounts of water tension on to the line - not necessarily the "amount of time" that the line spends on the water during the anchor stage of the casting sequence. Both the C or Circle Spey, and the Perry Poke, in effect "force" the flyline into the water, thus establishing a condition of water tension on to the line almost instantaneously. On the other hand, the Skagit-style Doublespey depends on the effects of gravity alone to bring the line back down to the water for the anchor, thus it takes a defined "stop" to allow for the flyline to "fall" onto the water long enough to establish the required condition of water tension.

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-12-2008, 11:26 PM
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I am fairly new at spey....about a year now. I've tryed a few lines, scandanavian , windcutter and skadgit. For a beginner the skadgit is by far the easyest to cast, as long as you have the right grain for your rod.I get distance without barely any effort and nice tight loops, my line of choice by anyday.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-13-2008, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks

Thanks for the advice all. I am off the Golden Gate Casting Ponds this aft and I will see if I can put all of it to good use.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 08:47 AM
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hey greenspey,

Let us know how you did at the casting pools. I'll be there with a similar set up this weekend. I'm new to this stuff myself and have been to the pools once before.

Adrian
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-14-2008, 09:23 PM
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sustained anchor

In addition to what Ed said, & FWIW: My take on the "sustained anchor" is not so much how long you let it sit there and sink, but how long you keep the rod low & parallel to the water during the sweep into the backcast.

For some reason, many people tend to bring the rod up much sooner than I would. Not to say that my way is the only way, but it seems to me that by keeping the sweep low & parallel to the water as long as possible, maxamizing the water friction (white mouse), I get a deeper rod loading. Deeper rod loading means I make the rod, rather than myself, do the work.

I fish because the voices inside my head tell me to.

Last edited by JDJones; 12-14-2008 at 09:34 PM. Reason: What Ed said
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 01:52 AM Thread Starter
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hey greenspey,

Let us know how you did at the casting pools. I'll be there with a similar set up this weekend. I'm new to this stuff myself and have been to the pools once before.

Adrian
Sorry for the late response, I missed the request to report back in the thread. So I did spend some time in the ponds and it was really helpful. Not only was it great to have the time to just cast (and not worry about fishing) but the people there are always amazing. It's a great club.

So, things I picked up I will list here but please keep in mind I am still sorting this out as I go so much of this could be wrong. I can only say for certain that when I tended to follow the things I was figuring out my cast consistent what I am pasting below are my notes from the sessions to if it reads odd consider it was written by and for me.

Therefore:

Using Circle Spey (I used it the most but many of the principles will be the same):


1.Drop the rod tip (after the circle) as far up and behind yourself as you can go.

2.Do your sweep low and slow

3.at the end of your sweep kick it up at the end with a gentle tap. Careful with your anchor

4.Raise your rod at the end of the kick into the shooting position and tap it out.

5.Pull the rod handle into your belly, use minimal (if any) upper arm.


Things to remember:


1. The positive stop is almost a twitch/tap. If you do it right itís sort of like pushing out and pulling back at the same time and the loops you can cast are really tight. This was an epiphany to me.

2. Your cast will generally land where your feet are pointing so be careful with that.

3. I have to be careful about rolling my shoulder and also casting off kilter (outside the 180) with your d loop went or it will tangle in mid air. again and again.

4.Watch your anchor. the closer and more parallel you can get it the better your cast will be. without questions, every time.

I was casting my Sage 7136 Z Axis with a compact skagit 450 grain and my TFO 5/6 with compact at 420. Both threw the lines excellent and the airflow tips were fantastic as were the poly leaders. T14 was a bear on the 5/6, and I am not sure if it because my casting needed fixed (likely in part) or if the grains were not heavy enough to turn over the 12 foot T14 tips.

al
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