How much line outside the rod tip? - Spey Pages
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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How much line outside the rod tip?

I'm new to spey casting. I was told I could use my 9-weight shooting head on my 6/7 spey rod. The head, however, is 38 feet; so the problem I'm having is that the bump where the loop connectors join is killing my casts unless I have the whole shooting head outside the tip. (When I do the line casts fine, but I don't have enough running line outside the rod tip to retrieve a lot of line.)

I know I'd be better off with a real spey line, but after buying the new rod money is tight now.

Thanks so much,

Randyflycaster
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 11:13 PM
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This is one of the possible problems with a shooting head.

Shooting heads are really designed primarily for casting and fishing at distance, ie 'shooting' the running line behind the cast head. Then, if you strip back as part of the fishing method (rather than just strip back to retrieve prior to casting again), then most usually you will strip back until just the head is outside the tip top ring, so that you are ready for the staged setup for the next cast.

However, from what you say, it appears that you strip back the head well into the guides, ie you are fishing back to well less than the 38' of head, and thus you WILL have difficulty in setting up for the next cast.

Without breaking the bank, and for fishing into very close quarters, go for an 'end of range' WF or DT line, correctly weighted for your rod; these lines are not much in demand, and are often selling for $10-15 a line.

Just a few thoughts.

Mike

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 11:31 PM
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If I understand correctly,your line backend is way inside your guides because you need to stripfish way in,but you want to cast to a distance that requires shooting running line?that's simple.Just shake out your line by moving your tip side to side and letting line go out until the whole linehead is out.The amount of running line outside your tip depends on the right weight that gives the best cast....experiment.With the line weights I choose I usually have a couple inches to a foot outside the tip. Then do a rollcast down stream and you are setup for the next cast.

Beau
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
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Orvis Shooting Head Weight

Thanks guys. Let me also ask this: Orvis sells 28-foot shooting heads. If I wanted to try one for my Echo 6/7 weight what weight should I try? 11? 12?

Randy
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 11:16 AM
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another option to what Beau suggests is just roll cast and shoot the head back out the guides prior to making your cast - this gives you a tight line from rod tip with no slack on the water
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
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I also suspect part of my problem is that my line is too light and that's why the line is not loading properly.

Randy
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Randyflycaster View Post
I also suspect part of my problem is that my line is too light and that's why the line is not loading properly.

Randy
That could well be the case. One other thing to 'try' is changing the type of cast you're doing. The set up sounds like it may be about right for either a skagit or scandi type cast.

Just a thought.

fae



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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-30-2008, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
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Orvis Spey Line

As it turns out, yesterday I got a discount coupon from Orvis so I broke down and ended up buying their Type II Medium Head Spey Line, 7-Weight.

(I'll be late with my rent again.)

Any thoughts before I put it on?

Randy
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 09:19 AM
 
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Hi Randyflycaster
re amount of line outside the tip this is what I do .for normal so called classic spey casts using a spey line ,I mark my line with a waterproof marker at a point measured in from the line tip ,equal to 4X the rod length .before I cast I pull in line enough to see the mark just outside the tip ,never inside .ie I use 12 foot ,14 foot and 15 foot Hardy Gem rods therefore my lines are marked as follows 8 line 48 feet in ,9 line 56 feet in ,10 line 60 feet in .With the new Snowbee line you get a colour change which could help ,same with the Evans line
For a so called Skagit cast ,you are really only casting the running line so the the junction with the shooting head should be just outside the top ring .Better to use the new snowbee lines with permanently attached backing to the head and mark in my view .This however would restrict you to the type of line you are using { floater ,sink tip etc etc }I am opposed to the view that with the Skagit cast one should apply much extra force to the bottom hand 60/40 in my view should be about right .the power band should always be between 10 and 2 except when cutting under a head wind .Too much bottom hand tends to turn the cast into an old fashioned ROLL cast and leads to epicondylitis of the elbow joint .Hope some of this makes you think about this .

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 10:06 AM
 
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how much rod is outside the rod tip

Re my previous post let me correct an error the line mark on my 14 foot rod should be at 56feet not at 52 .sorry about that .
tharmas
post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-27-2008, 01:22 AM
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The orvis line

Randy, I have casted the orvis line you have and it seems to be a nice line. I haven't had the oppertunity to throw it long distances, just in a small pond. They claim it to have a 70' head but when I measured it it had a much shorter head and is rumored to be a windcutter floater.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-27-2008, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
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As it turned out, I returned the line. A very accomplished caster told me that with a 12'6" Echo rod, I'm better off with a shorter head. I bought a Windcutter.

(Also, I'm fishing stillwater, so I want a line I can strip in.)

I didn't measure the Orvis head, but it seemed to be about 70'.

Randy
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-27-2008, 02:49 PM
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Randy:

How's the casting coming along? You like the windcutter on that rod? I have the same rod, but have not tried a windcutter on it yet. I have using shorter head lines or a DT9.

Grace and Peace,
Todd
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-27-2008, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
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The rod loads much better with the Wincutter, but because I'm fishing stillwaters and want to retrieve as much line as possible, I might be
better off with a Skagit line - then again I have fantasies of using the spey rod on the Beaverkill.

I guess any line is a compromise.

I've been working a lot, so I haven't had much of a chance to practice. After watching Scott Mackenzie, I think I was swinging my elbow too far out when I set up the anchor and my forward cast went out in a sort of S shape. I notice Scott's elbow pretty much faces the target when he makes his forward cast.

Randy
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