Need help! - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-18-2016, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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Need help!

I don't live in Spey country. I switched to a switch rod from a SH a couple months ago to fish some of the larger tail water fisheries in the Southeast as well as bass fishing on Kentucky Lake. To cut to the chase my casting is really bad. My forward stroke just sends out a huge loop and travels only about 50 feet. I live in Western KY so I don't have a chance of finding an instructor within a few hours. Are there any users of this board within a couple hours of Paducah, KY that could help? I am using a TFO Deer Creek 4 WT with Ambush 6wt line. Thought I would give this a shot.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-18-2016, 02:38 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnc40QQKiVo

Usually too much top hand travel, watch the video for comparison to your style.

I have your rod and like it with 210gr-240gr Scandi, your Ambush 6wt should be fine with a 10ft Polyleader.

Regards,
FK
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-18-2016, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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I will take a look at the video. What scandi line are you using. Thanks.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-21-2016, 08:20 AM
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Spey Casting

I agree with Fred. Also, it may be helpful to review Travis Johnson's advice in the attached YouTube
video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLtgClSNm6U

These are simple steps that have a huge payoff.

Doug
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-21-2016, 12:26 PM
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Scottky, as others will no doubt chime in, there is absolutely no diagnosing your issue/s based merely on one symptom. Yes, finding someone to watch you is the best, but I'm guessing your area is not in a spey casting instruction sweetspot. IMHO one of the next best things to do if you can't find someone to come out and personally watch and help you, would be to buy the Simon Gawesworth's/Rio 2-DVD set " Modern Spey Casting" as this was designed purposefully as a comprehensive coverage starting with fundamentals. This would set you back about $40, but will still be relevant and helpful when you are very competent. It has all the basics, all the casts, and troubleshooting problems, all with GOOD video of the casts. Having EVERYTHING laid out, beginning to end, and by (almost) ONE person to start with will be the least confusing. In the absence of an instructor these DVDs might be about the next best thing. It will only be the next fastest method to get better, but it WOULD teach you how to diagnose your own problems to a certain extent, and attention to detail. Those will come in super handy as you progress in an area of the country that may not have a ton of one-on-one help always close at hand.

Another way, and for a variety of reasons (that there is no reason to go into here) I would guess that this would actually in the end be inferior and more confusing than carefully studying the suggested DVD's, would be to post videos of yourself casting. It would be a hassle, and the iteration process would be slow, but you could get some much more relevant advice. I've only ever seen a few folks follow through on this plan on here, but it might work for you.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-21-2016, 03:04 PM
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Sounds like you need more line speed. Watch your D loop form. Let the rod do the work. On the forward stroke pull more with your lower hand and stop your top hand sooner. Use your body. Relax. The rod is a powerful catapult and will let you know what it wants. That said, I've never cast a micro-spey, so I could be out of my element, Donnie.

Ed Ward always helps - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp-e...ature=youtu.be

Tight Lines
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-21-2016, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonT View Post
Sounds like you need more line speed. Watch your D loop form. Let the rod do the work. On the forward stroke pull more with your lower hand and stop your top hand sooner. Use your body. Relax. The rod is a powerful catapult and will let you know what it wants. That said, I've never cast a micro-spey, so I could be out of my element, Donnie.

Ed Ward always helps - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp-e...ature=youtu.be

Tight Lines

Agree with Jon here where comments new casters have a great tendency to use too much 'upper hand' in their casting. Think of the upper had as a fulcom point and pull the bottom cork into your tummey. There will be some upper hand movement, but not all that much.




Fred Evans - White City, Oregon
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 05:09 PM
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I agree: More lower hand. There's lots that can contribute to bad casting for anyone just starting out but a big wide open loop sure sounds like top hand doing all the pulling and rod tip arcing. Pull line using both hands and get the line traveling in one direction on the forward cast. If I had to use a number it would be 60/40, lower hand -vs- upper hand. 50/50 on rods with full flex though-actions. Aim for the tree tops on the other side of the lake - not across the street! With 12 o' clock being straight up - you should to aim for 2:00 o' clock.

There's lots of "talk" on here about drifting and in spey casting - same as overhead casting - there is a definite stop going into the d loop. With enough energy in the sweep and a definite stop into d loop - the line will not crash behind you. Also think of lower handle emphasis [in two handed casting] as a haul in single handed casts. Single handed you would haul line into the back cast, stop the rod momentarily, then "drift'' slightly further back before coming forward. In spey casts you pull line using both hands into d loop and stop the rod momentarily. Trust me it will not crash on the water behind you when you do this. Pull line forward using both hands: top hand aimed at tree top - lower hand towards your belly or right up against your forearm top hand. Watch the line and feel the rod. You'll also hear the line rip off the water, the rod will thump and reel will ask: "More shooting line please." You'll see distance increase for sure (Zen???) You are looking at your anchor (down to the fly ) and for the loop to begin closing. Fold the line over before releasing the cast. Keeping an eye on the anchor will teach you when things are good AND when not lined up correctly ( 180ļ out. ) To avoid crashed loops also by lowering the rod out of the way and to keep from hooking self by aborting the cast or aiming it so that it will clear it's self. It will come to you, no doubt.

Last edited by fish0n4evr; 05-22-2016 at 05:32 PM.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-27-2016, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottky View Post
I don't live in Spey country. I switched to a switch rod from a SH a couple months ago to fish some of the larger tail water fisheries in the Southeast as well as bass fishing on Kentucky Lake. To cut to the chase my casting is really bad. My forward stroke just sends out a huge loop and travels only about 50 feet. I live in Western KY so I don't have a chance of finding an instructor within a few hours. Are there any users of this board within a couple hours of Paducah, KY that could help? I am using a TFO Deer Creek 4 WT with Ambush 6wt line. Thought I would give this a shot.
Ok, its impossible to to know what is wrong with your cast but these guys have been kind enough to take the time to give you some great advice.

What do you have tied on the end of your Ambush line? If you answer this I will follow up and throw in my two cents.

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-27-2016, 12:08 PM
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Not that this should matter greatly, but the Ambush, a line designed especially for SH roll casting, with dense short head, will tend to have a fatter loop when cast in general - but that does not mean "loose" at all. As I am guessing Skagtmeister is implying above, when spey casting with this line you really should have some kind of tip on it - it has a VERY short head. You might try simply static roll casting until you get the proper stop down. By this I don't mean you grandfather's roll cast - I mean with a high stop and where all the line shoots out straight well above the water. If you can get that down you will be well on the way of remedying the forward stroke. The static roll will allow you to separate out the forward stroke from any other issues that come before it on a regular spey cast. BTW, the stop is more-or-less the same one as a SH cast - if you are adept at that already then try casting (two-handed) overhead until you get it to shoot out with a tight loop. This might be a good reminder if you already have years of muscle memory casting a SH rod. Concentrate on moving your upper hand the same as you would on a single hand cast during the forward stroke. When you get the feel of a crisp cast back on the forward stroke using the switch rod maybe that will help you get on track.

If all these exercises are already like butter for you, then, yeah, your issue may be all in the lack of tension/timing in the part leading up to the forward stroke. I predict you will eventually have an "Ah Ha!" moment where it will all come together. :-)
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-27-2016, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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On the end of the Ambush line there is a 10 ft poly leader and then 10-15lb leader about 4 feet in length. I have 30 years on a SH rod and thought the DH game would be interesting to learn.

Last edited by scottky; 05-27-2016 at 01:00 PM.
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