Need an explaintion of lines ! - Spey Pages
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-23-2006, 03:17 PM Thread Starter
 
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Question Need an explaintion of lines !

Can someone give me a sight that’s explains the lines? Like the deference between wt forward and shooting head. The deference between fly and spey lines. What all the abbreviations mean? The deference in the types of heads and what they do . ect. Ect. beeg1
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-23-2006, 04:49 PM
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fly lines.

fly line tapers

http://www.flyfishusa.com/lines/choo...ome.html#Taper

http://www.rioproducts.com/siteTechSpecs.php


EX. WF-8-F = Weight Forward-8 Weight Line-Floating
DT-6-F = Double Taper-6 Weight-Floating
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-23-2006, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
 
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another ?

Can I use my wf 9# f- line on my 11’ 9wt rod for spey casting ?
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-23-2006, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeg1
Can I use my wf 9# f- line on my 11’ 9wt rod for spey casting ?
If your 11ft rod is a single hander rated for a 9 wt line then yes you probably can. However, if you had say a 14ft 9wt two-hander your 9 wt line wouldn't load it. Two-handed rods are much more powerful than single handers and need more grain weight to load them than a single handed rod so SPey lines are made with heavier and usually longer heads on them than lines designed for single handers.



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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-23-2006, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
 
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When is a 9# a 9# ?

Are you saying that, a 9wt fly line has a deferent head wt than a 9wt spey? I guess this is what I was confused about! I thought that a wt # was “grain per foot “regardless of what the application. Also, If a rod is rated at a 9#, one would think that a 9# line would be called for . Why would they call it a 9# if in fact it needed a 11# ? Why wouldn’t they call it a 11# ? steve
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-24-2006, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeg1
Are you saying that, a 9wt fly line has a deferent head wt than a 9wt spey? I guess this is what I was confused about! I thought that a wt # was “grain per foot “regardless of what the application. Also, If a rod is rated at a 9#, one would think that a 9# line would be called for . Why would they call it a 9# if in fact it needed a 11# ? Why wouldn’t they call it a 11# ? steve
Welcome to the wonderful world of the two-hander! A 9 wt single hander and a 9 weight Spey rod are different animals. A 9 weight Spey rod is designed to move a longer length of line than a 9 weight single hander. Your typical single hander is designed to be loaded by a 30ft head section of a fly line in a particular line weight. A Spey rod in the same line weight is designed to be loaded by a head length roughly twice that (or longer--depending on the rod maker) used for the single handed rod. Until the past few years there have been no set standards as to what makes a 9 weight Spey line.

Prior to the development of the "modern" Spey lines the standard Spey line was a long belly double taper line, and Spey rods were designed to throw these lines with 60ft or more out the rod tip. So a 9 weight Spey rod would throw a 9 weight long belly double taper line. As casters (particularly in Scandinavia and later in the Pacific Northwest) experimented with two-handers, many discovered that it was easier and more efficient for them to cut a shorter length off of a heavier long belly DT line (a #11 for example), splice it to some running line, and make a line with a shorter head section (let's say 55ft for example) that would load a two-handed rod. As more and more anglers experimented, some would prefer a 12wt line on the 9 wt rod, some a 10wt, and so on. So what made a 9 wt Spey line or a 9 wt Spey rod became largely a matter of personal interpretation among the Spey innovators. Eventually a few folks (Goran Andersson in Sweden; Michael Evans in the UK; Jim Vincent and Al Buhr in the US; as well as a few others) developed production Spey lines that became the "standards", except that the standards were all different. At the same time rod manufacturers like Sage began to develop a new generation of Spey rods for the North American market. Everyone sort of knew what a Spey rods was supposed to be, but there was no general consensus as there has been for years in the single handed world. So we ended up with 9 wt Spey rods that really didn't feel right unless they had one manufacturer's 11 wt on them, or another manufacturer's 8 weight.

Now that we have a Spey line weighting standard that is generally accepted within the industry this confusion will eventually resolve itself as rod manufacturers bring out new models designed around lines that meet the new standards. However, a 9 wt Spey rod will always need more grains to properly load it than a 9 wt single hander--that's just the way they're made!



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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-24-2006, 02:36 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the info

It seems to me that I should just get some running line and make up / buy some heads. I did something like this for sinking tips on my fly line. Loop to loop, short tippet. On another note, the reason I am interested in Spey casting is two fold. First is I can’t throw the 9# overhead for more than one day! It’s just hurts too much and I still can’t get the distance and control I would like, Second is, the spey itself, I was fishing at warm springs and saw a two hander up the river from me and was fascinated by what I saw. The effortless cast, the amazing distance, and just the plain beauty of it ! I knew right then , that I had to learn it. This was a few years ago but I never forgot. It was always in the back of my mind. At the time I didn’t know that you could spey with a single hand rod . Anyhow I got your dvd [The art of spey casting] and the light went on. Now I don’t know if I need a two handed rod or not but I do know that “ the magic is in the spey”. Up to the arrival of the dvd, I had thought that spey was a type of rod. Now I know it’s a style of casting. This I can handle! Unfortunately I live San Diego. Good for salt but lousy for steelhead. There are no rivers to practice on and no dealer to try out rods, and you should see the looks I get at the local golf courses [the only water around]. We do have the worlds most endangered steelhead run. Because this post is open, I won’t say any more about it other than to say that they can only run in the flood years and they are only about a handful left, historically they ran as far south as Ensenada . I have had the good fortune to actually see them. The last official sighting of them was in north county and the fish [2] were taken by illegal aliens with a pitch fork . I have seen them after that . I would never think of fishing for them and where they are , there is little chance of anyone bothering them. Thank you for your help and patience! Steve
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-24-2006, 11:18 AM
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It's been a while since I moved from Orange County to Maine, but Bob Marriott's in Fullerton is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, fly fishing store in SoCal. They do sell spey rods among their otherwise huge selection of stuff. Make a trip up there and see if you can try some rods and get some lessons.
Good luck.
Joe

And they have a web site you can search for directions, catalogue, etc
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-05-2006, 06:24 AM
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People don't often, or if ever mention this, but when it comes to casting 9 footers the system is all about false casting and double hauling, and for that you need room. But not too many people are willing to say that the system is designed to progressively load the rod, which is really much heavier than the rated load. Like for example a 9 weight 9 footer is rated on the AFTMA charts at 240gns, but ideally you need to get a load of 360gns to fully load it.
You achieve that load by false casting the head to and from and double hauling which progressively loads the rod.
Depending on the number of casts and DH's, and of course the size and grunt available from the caster, the rod will end up with a load approaching, or about 2 weights up on the rating. Like for a 9 weight the real load is 11 weight, or 330gns.
Generally users of 9 foot fly rods don't know, or haven't been told that you can spey cast with the things, which intentionally or unintentionally restricts the use of such rods in some places.
The users of Spey/Scandi/Skagit or overhead double handed rods on the other hand realise that they have a very handy fishing tool in their hands because they get to know about the wide variety of applications available to them, and the lines available to them for their fishing. No matter where it is.
Over the years there have been developments of the Spey rods to include the other casting styles and today its a pretty technical sort of game.
Manufacturers now make special lines for every application, and the number of rods available are increasing day by day.
Mind you they aren't getting cheaper but they are getting better.
I'm not a very good example but I've moved into DH rods, overhead types, for salt water fly fishing and have ditched all my 9 footers, basically because they are not very energy efficient, casting is a bore and they are very short ranged. You can cast further with bigger flies with a DH rod than you ever could with a short rod. And thats regardless of opinion or brags.
One of the more serious advantages of DH rods is that they can, by a bit of jiggery pokery be used as spinning rods, or beach rods by fitting a couple of different, or rather a lot, of different type guides, like light bridge guides or single footers.
I have recently had a TFO 12x12 re runnered with singlefoots to make it a switcheroo rod, like DH fly/beach casting/spinning thing. I also had the butt of a 9 foot Shimano hefty spinning rod altered so that it can be used as a 9 foot double handed fly rod. Its heavy, rated load 30 to 60g, like 460gns to 925gns. While its difficult, like impossible for me, to cast one handed its easy to get a line going double handed.
Years ago I lived in Carnarvon in Western Australia and fished fly off some fabulous ocean rocks, mind you it was with glass fly rods then, but now Im planning to get fishing off those same rocks with DH rods, and hope to hook into some of the same meanies that blasted me to bits all those years ago.
Welcome to the real world of fly fishing. And I mean the REAL world.
MaxG.
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