Which Is Better - Spey Pages
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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Which Is Better

Which is better, to concentrate on one cast until you master it or try them all and gradually become proficient?
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 04:52 PM
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Hi Leo!

Identify two casts that will allow you to cast from both sides of the river in all winds (I would recommend the Circle Cast and the Double Spey) and stick with those until you are proficient, then learn other casts.



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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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Is the circle cast the same as the snap T?
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 06:53 PM
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Circle vs. snap-t

Are they the same? More or less. The difference being how large or how small you make the circle. The smaller the circle, the more likely your chances are of the fly smacking the rod tip. Hence the name "snap tip" and the evolution of the circle cast.

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 06:58 PM
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It is very similar, instead of raising your rod tip, then snapping it down towards the water, you raise the rod tip, and continue your motion in a large reverse C-shape. This places the anchor, rather than the snap of the Snap-T. The Circle Spey is probably a lot easier than the Snap-T, you have much better control of your anchor placement.

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 07:41 PM
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what JD and kush said.



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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana
Hi Leo!

Identify two casts that will allow you to cast from both sides of the river in all winds (I would recommend the Circle Cast and the Double Spey) and stick with those until you are proficient, then learn other casts.
My two cents. I have to disagree with the circle/snapT as an initial cast to learn. It simply retards learning a single spey. I always thought of the circle as a compensetory cast until Gary Chalmers showed me a functional use for it. (allows a much lower sidearm delivery than a single where one has to get in under overhanging branches etc.). Allthouth the circle/snap might get one fishing a little faster it does not take that much more practice to get a decent single. The single also teaches the importance of timing and anchor placement much more than any other cast. To my mind learning (and getting proficient with) a circle/snapT only delays and/or inhibits the development of a good single which one can never become a truly proficient caster without.
As one can never reach max. distance (water coverage) without a strong single why delay the learning of that wich one has to inevitably master.
To my mind the basics hold true, first learn a double and single of both hands and then a snake to deal with obstruction on the upwind side.

PS lets not talk about Skagit as a tea ching method

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 10:52 PM
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Also no one is going to be a very happy camper following you down an East Coast salmon pool as you are merrily slicing up the water with your circle/snaps. I deliberately refrain from using doubles if at all possible for this reason.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 10:53 PM
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my sheckels....

I would disgree with a single being needed as one of the first casts learned. Much akin to starting someone with a 95' head. It would take an average student a relatively long time to learn a single to be anywhere proficient with it. Like maybe a whole season which is going to sour them on spey casting in general.

Teaching a student how to snap takes maybe a day and most folks get it down well enough to start fishing which is what most students want. Not all are casting geeks.

The snap almost all the time puts the fly in the correct anchor postion so a student can get the feel of where it should be. Plus if the student is in an area where fishing sink tips is commonplace (like 3/4 of the season in the northwest) they are going to find the circle/snap a heavily used fishing cast no matter how good a caster they become. Especially when casting heavy flies on tips. A single is just a pain in the arse in those situations and would lead to much frustration as it was for me when I learned to cast.

A new student is going to slice up the water no matter what cast they are using that first year...

-sean
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 11:34 PM
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There is much to be learned from the single Spey--it is the ultimate cast for anyone who wants to become a really good caster; however, as a versatile fishing cast it presents high hurdles for the novice to intermediate. In my experience, most people who say they want to learn how to Spey cast really want to learn how to use the two hander in an actual fishing situation as quickly as possible. Usually the single Spey is not the answer.

From an instructor's perspective, it is important to ask what the client wants to learn rather than dictate a particular method. So Leo if you had hired me to do some casting instruction, I'd first ask you want you wanted to learn, and take it from there. If we had a two day course together, I'd start you off with the single Spey and teach you the Circle Cast later; however, if we are on the water and have only a few hours together before you start your week of fishing, I would presume that your focus is fishing with casting as the means to that end, and I'd teach...the Circle Cast and Double Spey.

Once the line has been repositioned, the Circle and Double share the same motion to set up the D Loop, making them very easy to teach and learn together. This speeds up the learning process and allows a newer caster to gain some skill and confidence with a double handed rod in a relatively short period of time (an hour or two). The two classic Spey casts--the single Spey and (again)the double Spey--are very different casts, making them more challenging to learn together, especially if time is short and fishing is the aim.



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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muckle Salmon
Also no one is going to be a very happy camper following you down an East Coast salmon pool as you are merrily slicing up the water with your circle/snaps. I deliberately refrain from using doubles if at all possible for this reason.
Executed with care, the Circle Cast doesn't have to be a mess on the water; in fact, where I fish I see a lot of really bad single Speys that rip up the water as much as any cast. A really well executed single Spey is a delight to behold, and rips up little water, but there aren't many out there who can do that consistently...



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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-05-2006, 09:33 AM
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Dana, you beat me to it. I just got back from a month in Quebec. During that time I did hundreds of circle casts. It is probably the cast I use that disturbs the water the least. Even the guides mentioned that I ripped the water less than many clients with double-handers. And I'm not even all that good at speycasting, but I've learned to do a reasonably gentle circleC that no one minds following. When standing in the Gasp canoes one needs to use a modified single spey, but when I was wading (at least half the time) it was the circleC and the double spey depending upon wind and river location. This was with floating lines by the way. I think Dana's initial advice was right-on.
post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-05-2006, 11:23 AM
 
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I have to agree with Dana and JR on this. The two most useful casts in ones arsenal are the circle/snap T and the double. If you can become proficient with these two casts there are not many situations on the water that you can not cover with these two casts. Plus they are probably the two easiest ones to learn quickly. Except for skagit casting but apparently that is taboo in this post..............

As for ripping up the water. I dont see why one needs to do this. if you are tearing up the water you are putting way to much emphasis or force in your strokes? This will mess up your rhythm and tends to ruin the entire cast. When I try and teach or help someone with their casting. I put a great deal of emphasis on teaching them to slow down. This seems to be the single biggest problem I see when people are trying to learn how to cast?
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-07-2006, 12:47 AM
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[QUOTE=Dana]In my experience, most people who say they want to learn how to Spey cast really want to learn how to use the two hander in an actual fishing situation as quickly as possible. Usually the single Spey is not the answer.

If we had a two day course together, I'd start you off with the single Spey and teach you the Circle Cast later; however, if we are on the water and have only a few hours together before you start your week of fishing, I would presume that your focus is fishing with casting as the means to that end, and I'd teach...the Circle Cast and Double Spey.

QUOTE]

My point exactly. If someone wants to learn to cast then the single is a must. If it is just a question of getting some line out, working within a short time frame, then I would definitely agree. The two day time frame may be a little long as I have found that most people can get a half decent single with a full days instruction, however I would defer to your experience in this area.

PS appreciate the diplomatic skill you must have developed in the teaching profession

One point not addressed however was the tendancy of the snap/circle to retard the development of a decent single. (illustrated somewhat by some of the subsequent posts). Human nature being what it is, most people have a hard time after mastering a technique that gives some degree of success, going back and learning a technique that initially will give a lesser degree of success allthough in the long run they know that it will benefit them.
For this reason I also dislike the idea of starting people on a short belly (probabally the only area I would disagree with Simon on) and find that their progression moves much faster if they start with a mid. It also gives them a goal to work on.

As I said just my 2 cents
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